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Gardening

Find tips and tricks to make your garden or allotment flourish on our Gardening forum.

Osteospermumsnet.com - flutter your foliage, pick your produce, shake your seed packets and bring your blooms to the Spring Show

999 replies

Lexilicious · 03/05/2012 22:46

Welcome to the gardening quiche :)

Earlier malarkey was here

All welcome whether you are a Sackville-West or a Dimmock, an Oudolf or a Swift. Whether you dream of digging or dig for dreams.

Fair weather or foul, we've got disco lights in the potting shed and fairy lights on the terrace. Bring gin, wine just doesn't cut it round here.

OP posts:
Grockle · 05/07/2012 23:08

Oh Lexi, I want to be your FB friend! I will definitely take pictures tomorrow!

Wynken, hopefully they will have restocked the garden centre by the time I go. Maybe see you at the sale? Wink I'll wander around and mutter loudly about naice ham and blueberries. Maybe I'll put a hydraengea flower in my hair and you can wave at me through the half-price roses? Grin

funnyperson · 06/07/2012 03:13

At £30 a ticket Hampton Court Flower show is out of my budget as that would be £60 for two. A family outing would cost £120.
I watched the programme preview on iplayer with interest till it came to a bit where one of the presenters said a garden was cheap because it 'only' had £7000 spent on it.
At that point I thought 'bah humbug' and turned the thing off, and will not watch the episode on show gardens on principle.
Anyway I like my lawn.

Grockle · 06/07/2012 06:49

£7000 Shock

WynkenBlynkenandNod · 06/07/2012 07:16

Makes you realise how much they must spend on the gardens when 7k is cheap. Just googled and the average cost of a Chelsea garden is 250k, don't quite know what to say to that !

I would also wear a hydrangea Grockle but only have two flowers on my new plant so will have to be holding the Blueberry Farm's free recipe book. Just hope the sale is as good as it was when I last went. I filled my car for £25.

Lexi, I don't do FB but would love to see your pics....

Grockle · 06/07/2012 09:16

Yikes! I dread to think how much I spend on the garden over a year, with a few pounds here and there but never would it amount to thousands! And 250k! That's unbelievable.

I will save my pennies for the plant sale - if I can fill my car for £25, I will be a happy girl! DP will be bemused - he doesn't understand gardening and how much peace and happiness my garden brings me. And he doesn't like blueberries Shock Maybe I'll leave him at the garden centre and bring home more plants...

Lexilicious · 06/07/2012 09:42

I don't think £7k is excessive, and here's why: I asked the bloke at that stand whether that included labour, materials, plants (raised from seed or bought mature?), trees, and all that, and he said it did actually include everything other than the chiminea, table and chairs, and the sculpture. Clearly there would be a difference in the labour costs to do that garden in (e.g.) Notting Hill vs Doncaster, so there is a bit of a fudge there. But it did include about a week's labour, skip hire for excavated earth, some reasonably mature plants (e.g. the four trees were £700 total), the reclaimed (but not free) materials like the scaffold boards, etc etc. Also, the garden is shown at approx two years after doing the work - so plants are put in more mature and abundant than the initial planting would be for the money - another artifice to get below the £7k measure! He also didn't mention the cost of the designer - think of the time taken to design, source materials, project manage and guarantee that garden for the client, I have no idea how many gardens like that the average designer/landscape gardener can push out in a year, but if it's even only £1k a time, you need to be completing one about every ten days (taking off taxes) to just be on the average UK income! I think perhaps the RHS is (intentionally or not) making a subtle point here that garden design is high skill and artistry for actually very little money reaching each worker in the team.

If I was to honestly calculate what I have spent on my garden I think I would need to have a bit of a lie down. But in terms of added value to your home (by which I don't necessarily mean re-sale value, but the emotional value of having lovely, personalised, fragrant and colourful surroundings), £7k for a very designy garden on a £200k house is about comparable with the complete cost of fitting a new kitchen. If you are a family of 3/4 in a cute little terrace house with one reception room at the front, spending £7k to make the garden an alternative sitting area to read or have meals is like creating another room - that's certainly worth it!

I think that the show gardens in all categories are on a different level to normal people's gardens. They're a concentration of elements that in reality you would spread out much wider or take a few from in the same area.

OK, I'm tempted to be very honest now, I'm going to work out approx what my back garden has cost (or should have cost in the case of free labour / free divisons of plants) in two years. Or you could look at it as what it would cost to recreate if it was totally trashed by a tornado or something. It's about the same size as those Low Cost High Impact ones...

Decking £1200 inc skip hire taking away earth and notional cost of my dad's labour
Climbers (8) at about £10 each, £80
Herbs (about 30 plants?) at £2-5 each, £150
Flowering/shrubby perennials (lavenders, dicentra, sarcococca, heucheras, euphorbias, astilbe, astrantia, sisyrhinchium, dogwood, skimmia, hypericum, euonymus, monarda, hellebores, lilies, dianthus, alchemilla, achillea) £300
Roses £25
Dwarf fruit trees £60
Pots of many sizes, wooden and terracotta, 8 large, 20 small/medium, yikes about £350
Edging around the lawn, about two tonnes of large stones, £250?
Rotavator hire and a tonne of topsoil to prepare the lawn area, £150
Pond digging and rockery building, maybe two man-days of unskilled labour, plus a tonne of stones and a breezeblock wall to back it, £300
Acer on the rockery and lots of alpines and bulbs, £100
Two sheds Grin plus four man-days digging and concreting the slab bases and building the sheds. £1500
Various durable veggie grow-bags, £50
Veg seeds, onion sets, seed potatoes etc. (and young plants on a whim to fill gaps!), £50 (per year, realistically)
Compost to improve beds and borders (before home composting /leaf mould gets going) £250
Stakes, cane supports, string, £50
Mini grow house £20
Grass seed £25
spring/autumn bulbs £50
Fence around pond inc labour £150
Compost bins and water butts £150
Wheelbarrow, lawnmower, strimmer, hedgecutter £200
Tools £200
Seed/container compost £60 (per year)
Hanging baskets £30
Ericaceous compost £15
Tables and chairs £250
total £5995

I've tried to be very honest there and not underestimate the value of things. I think the total is probably fairly accurate in value (not cost) although the obvious omission is my own labour! I might take a look at my insurance docs tonight, just in case we do get more horrific weather...!!

OP posts:
Lexilicious · 06/07/2012 09:45

(oops, that was a bit of an essay!)

In other news, the rat is back in my garden (under the decking, very likely). I have ordered a bait box and loose bait - and will think about filling up the space under the decking with concrete. I have also noticed that since he's been back I have not seen any little birds like robins, wrens, tits. Sad

OP posts:
teta · 06/07/2012 09:59

I really enjoyed the Hampton Court programme.I was also horrified by the 7000 pounds for a 'first' garden.With the cost of a first house these days this is way too much.But i guess you can take ideas/elements from it [like a beautiful sofa from an interior designed room].Its not there to be slavishly copied.I loved the different levels made from recycled materials and the the 'outdoor fireplace' positioned on a higher level next to the chairs.I also really liked the kids tv presenter who talked about the peace he has in his garden and the pride he had in his plants.Who was the new female presenter who also designs gardens?She spoke beautifully and lyrically about some of the show gardens.

Grockle · 06/07/2012 12:16

Lexi, you are probably right. My garden was a mess when I moved in 2 years ago and I've worked hard on it. Given that we're being honest, here is what I think I may have spent in that time

Path: 300
Fence & gate: 400
Lawn: 550
Shed: £350
Concrete base: 180
Growhouse - 30
pots/ baskets - 50
water butts - 80
Plants 200 (probably double that a little more in reality)
Potting compost etc 50
Brackets, string, canes etc 50

2030 +

Eeek.

Lexilicious · 06/07/2012 12:52

thanks Grockle, mainly for not making me feel a pariah for exposing all that Smile - hope it does not seem I was bragging either. I think I have actually spent less than half of that theoretical total, and also have made about £50 this spring alone in sales of divisions/seed-raised veg.

OP posts:
HumphreyCobbler · 06/07/2012 14:13

I will ask DH later if he has a running cost of what we have spent. It is going to be a lot I expect. But it is my passion and his passion and we have the most knackered car you could imagine Grin. I also think that if we had a bit more plant knowledge then we wouldn't be so expensive about it.

£7000 for a garden in a totally artificial space and with heightened expectations seems about what I thought tbh. Imagine if all of us billed for our time alone, how many hours skilled labour would that be?

I put all my garden pics on FB too. I actually found myself showing a photo of my wildflower meadow to someone at a party last year Grin. Gardens always look a lot more impressive in photos, no?

Grockle · 06/07/2012 15:47

I hadn't even thought about the cost of my time. I can't imagine how much time I've spent out there - the few minutes here and hour there must had up to much more time that I think I spend on it.

Humphrey, if you have pictures of your wildflower meadow on FB you must share them with me Grin

funnyperson · 06/07/2012 15:59

I'm a Scrooge clearly: This year was a 'big spend' year as I spent £400 on a new lawn, £200 on fencing, £180 on two colonial chairs, probably about £300 on plants/plant food/seeds, new lawnmower £65: a gardener comes every Autumn to prune the very tall stuff £50. Total £1200 approx. Labour not included. I dont spend that much every year. It looks very pleasant, not lavish, and is definitely a lovely 'room outside'.

I think a garden is a worthwhile investment. i definitely wouldn't pay as much for a garden as for a new kitchen or a car. I still think the amounts they spend are OTT. But I can see that £7000 is a commercial price for producing something for a show from scratch. £250,000 is obscene for something not free to view for the public.

I would love to see the garden pics.

funnyperson · 06/07/2012 16:12

Forgot to mention water butt and veggie trough; £75 for the two.

funnyperson · 06/07/2012 16:24

Lots of the plants every year are cuttings/layerings/seeds etc from the garden and from friends, neighbours and family. That keeps the cost down. And doing my own gardening.

WynkenBlynkenandNod · 06/07/2012 16:37

Oh dear, this is making me face the reality of how much we've spent ! I started thinking it's not a lot as I haven't spent much this year, apart from the greenhouse but work paid for that. However we've spent:

£1200 for the deck
£90 to make steps by kitchen door
£100 raised beds (later demolished to make way for current greenhouse)
£120 to remove some bushes
£220 old greenhouse
£90 storage bench
£210 deck furniture
£40 hose
£60 pressure washer
£50 paint
£36 trellis
£140 table and chairs
£35 swinging hammock thing
£80 dealing with a corner bit
£2000 hedge cutting, grass cutting plus other maintenance over 10 years
£50 fruit trees and bushes
£250 on plants
£36 pond
£450 fencing and gates

So £5250 approx plus 2k on the current greenhouse this year that we haven't paid for. The depressing thing is we've been here 10 years and still have a long way to go to make the back garden look good. The garden isn't big but it's all round the house so have different areas to deal with. Also we've been lucky with the hard landscaping being in place to some extent and haven't had to fork out on that which would have been a fair bit as we're on a hill and they are supporting walls.

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud · 06/07/2012 17:00

Ok. While we are letting it all hang out divulging what we spend on the garden ... I reckon in the last couple of years I have spent

New Mrs Trellis of South Wales £100
Tree pruning £100
DA roses from Crocus £50
Plants £150 (most;y from plant sales and fetes - would have been £100s otherwise)
Water butt £40
Job lot of terracotta pots from Ebay £20
Compost and composted bark £100
Sundries bought from the gardening society £30

If I wasn't able to buy nearly all my plants so cheaply, this would be a very expensive hobby but, as has been said, it also provides us with another room although I do hate that pretentious garden-speak which calls a garden a room.

HumphreyCobbler · 06/07/2012 17:02

If anyone wants to be facebook friends so we can nose at each other's photos give me a PM

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud · 06/07/2012 17:03

Ah, Wynken, I deliberately didn't try to calculate what I've spent on the garden since I started it 15 years ago. The main item to add would be the turf for the lawn and and another 13 years worth of plants, although for the first few years we were supplied by my parents and I'm still digging out some of their lovely gifts, such as lamium galeobdolon which has invaded every bed.

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud · 06/07/2012 17:14

Was it Hidcote lavender that someone was searching for a while ago? Crocus now have it at half price.

::Not sure it's a good idea to be looking at the Crocus website::

funnyperson · 06/07/2012 17:26

I suppose another aspect to these ruminations about cost is that a community gardening project (eg front gardens/ common land etc) would have significant startup costs. It isn't sufficient to have will and able bodies. Judging by all your posts- the start up costs would be in the thousands.
Its odd because (Chelsea aside) I think I always thought of gardening as not expensive. I am so so wrong.

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud · 06/07/2012 17:38

Gardening can be expensive, but, equally, you can transform a garden with a couple of hundred quid whereas transforming a room inside the house will normally cost many times that.

I often think that people tending their gardens do far more to green an area than almost any community gardening project since, sadly, those always seems to revert back to wasteland because there is no money or time devoted to upkeep after the initial makeover.

WynkenBlynkenandNod · 06/07/2012 17:52

We need to have some trees pruned and a dead one removed, that's not going to be cheap so am avoiding it for now. Looking back at our cost the deck was a chunk but unavoidable as there were French doors opening out onto subsided steps and patio which were a toddler death trap. It would have cost a fortune to redo it as a safe patio so just decked over the top. If we've spent that on the garden, I dread to think what we've spent on the flipping house ....

Our allotments were funded by the lottery and another charity ,cost over 100k. Think some of that has paid for a salary for a couple of years. Local schools and community groups use them as well as the public so there had to be toilets with changing facilities and wheelchair friendly paths. On the other side of the scale we're doing a fenced in wildlife pond at school that should come in at around £500 thanks to being able to have free use of diggers etc.

Maybe we should think about bargains we've had now ?!

ComeIntoTheGardenMaud · 06/07/2012 17:58

I think of all my garden as a bargain, as I'd very likely have been on anti-depressants without it.

Just about all my plants were free swaps with other gardeners or bargains from plant sales, school fetes and the like. I think £12 for the grapevine is the most I've ever spent on a plant. I have just been admiring the summer (yellow) jasmine which I think cost £2 at an NGS open garden and has now reached the top of the obelisk.

Grockle · 06/07/2012 18:06

I never see money spent on the garden as a waste. I often consider buying something for the house but put it back because we don't really need it yet I can alway justify plants. If nothing else, they make me happy and there's no price on happiness. I don't smoke, I barely drink. My plant habit is not an addiction. No. It's not. Really.

Ooo, I collect lavender.