Wild Flower Meadow - is my soil too fertile?

[NigellasGuest]

I have a patch of bare earth of 10 sq metres (approx) in the middle of the back garden. There are a couple of very old apple trees on the edge of the patch..... it used to be a vegetable patch (which i didn't want, hence the bare earth).

After being cleared, the patch promptly sprung up a load of nettles, which suggest the land is very fertile. I have got rid of all the nettles (At least, I hope I have - it was a long job involving lots of roundup applications). Now it's just sitting there, looking blank. I have considered turfing over it, so it just becomes part of the lawn. However, I would love something more wildlife friendly and I really like the idea of a kind of overgrown grassy wild flower meadowy style bit IYSWIM.

BUT I keep reading that wild flowers only thrive on poor soil. Can anyone suggest what to do - perhaps i should try and make the soil less fertile (how would I do that)? Or maybe this is a myth and you CAN grow wild flowers on fertile soil?

sorry if this is long .... any suggestions would be most gratefully received! TIA

Have a look at

www.gardenadvice.co.uk/howto/wildflowers/meadow/index.html

You do have to adapt the environment to some extent for some wild flowers but it's not insurmountable!

I don't know the answer to your qu except to say that everything I've read says take away the (fertile) top soil and sew the seed onto that. Or take away the top soil and buy wildflower turf, which might make it easier.

Anyway, I am thrilled to see this post! I have been totally inspired by Sarah Raven's recent programme (which I'm guessing you've seen) and one day if I own a house/garden I want to do the same. Will watch the thread with interest.

thank you! it's quite a palaver, then. Would still like to try though. I think Sarah Raven has mentioned just putting normal turf/grass down, and then putting plug plants in it and allowing the grass to grow long. Could be easier? Plus, not so bare in winter? I need to do more research, I know, and thanks for the links. It's just good to have some pointers/encouragement on here too, so thank you! any more tips or suggestions?

I think a lot of the recent wildflower mixtures are adapted to a more fertile soil.Sarah ravens pastel wildflower meadow mix is suitable for sowing in normally fertile soil as it is an annual mix.The difficulty is with the perennial meadow mix's [like in the olympic area] which prefers a poor soil and in any case takes 2 years to look its best.Why not phone up the website for advice?.I have also been inspired to have a meadow too[but round my rhodie's].

That's interesting teta. I guess the first year you could sew lots of annuals and perennials so that while the perennials are getting established there's still something to look at. And I think that's the point of the wildflower turf - that it's been growing a while already so should look good in the first year (I think!)

Nigella, if you sew it into normal grass and let that grow long, wouldn't that stop the flowers growing? Ultimately as far as I know you're removing the top soil so the grass can't grow as it's too much competition for the flowers. But then what do I know, Sarah Raven was growing some grass types wasn't she, in amongst it all.

Oh and where I said in my post 'remove the top soil sew the seed onto that' I didn't mean sew in the removed top soil, but what is left when you've taken that away, but I guess you got that!

I'm going to get a couple of big window boxes and sew some annual wildflowers this year. I just rent at present so can't touch the main lawn but one day I'll have my own garden and have the whole lawn as wildflowers, oh yes.

Teta - I'm waiting for a call back from the Sarah Raven people! Will keep you updated....

Worzel - don't worry I wasn't going to sow in the removed top soil although that might result in a rather attractive flowery hillock?!! I know what you mean about the normal grass stopping flowers growing - I really don't know what I'm talking about though! What soil will you put in your wildflower window boxes?

think I will watch Sarah Raven prog on i-player - I've only seen one episode and there must have been another one by now...

Wow, a call from the Sarah Raven people!! Very jealous. I've just been watching the programmes again on iplayer as they are so relaxing. There were three in total and they're still on there.

I was thinking of putting some used veg compost in my boxes, or just regular compost but as a beginner gardener I could be doing the wrong thing. I've been on Sarah Raven's website and it's interesting as it does say her seed mixes can go in fertile soil. I feel this year will be a bit of an experiment!!

Incidentally I hope you will let some nettles stay in your garden, at least elsewhere. Great food/habitat for caterpillars and other insects, as I understand it. Thus more butterflies later in the year. And you can eat the tips in spring. Nettle gnocchi is something I want to try this year.

someone from Sarah Raven did call back pretty promptly and was very nice and helpful! Yes she suggested removing some of the topsoil, but recommended which flower mix would be most suitable - and as this mix contains perennials, she advised chucking in some annuals at the same time to keep the interest while the perennials establish. I am now inspired to get out there at the weekend and start shifting topsoil - what fun! - but I have heard bad things about the weather....

Yes you're right Worzel, nettles are really good. I'm sure a few will be back - I am never able to totally obliterate them! Nettle gnocchi..... interesting! what is it?

when you say I feel this year will be a bit of an experiment!! I must say, I have exactly the same feeling!

Nettle gnocchi. Yum. I doubt you actually taste the nettles, but they are so good for you so you get all the nutrition.

I see now that on Sarah Raven's website she says here that you can spray off with glyphosate if you have nettles. No idea what that is, or whether it's organic.

I just bought her pictorial meadows classic annual mix for some window boxes. Absolutely can't wait to plant them in a month when they arrive. Which seed mix have you gone for? Can I be nosy and see pictures when it all grows? I'm not obsessed with wildflowers at all, I promise

Getting far too carried away with this all

Thanks for the recipe link, I have printed it off Worzel and now I'm hoping a few nettles do come back.......

yes glyphosate is what I used on the nettles (Roundup is the most wellknown brand, I referred to it in my OP but reading back it wasn't particularly clear what I was talking about). It's not organic but it's loads better than some other chemicals, because if it lands on soil it is immediately ineffective, ie, it doesn't pollute the soil, you can subsequently plant anything there. However you have to be very precise with applying Roundup because it will kill most actual plants that it touches. Best to use it just for things like big areas of nettles (as I had) which would take days to dig up and which could actually be caused to spread even more if digging up isn'/t done completely thoroughly (apparently bits of nettle root will just multiply if left behind).

I've just bought Sarah Raven's Wild Flower Meadow Mix as advised by the nice person who called me back the other day! Yes I will post some pics when they have germinated and then been destroyed by the cat grown into a beautiful meadow. I've just taken a pic of what it looks like now and will attempt to put it on my profile...... hope you will have pics too!

Yes, will take some pics!

I hope all my advice hasn't been teaching grandma to suck eggs. You clearly know your stuff and I don't at all. I'm just so enthusiastic about it all. Like an annoying puppy you want to tell to eff off

Hope most of your nettles stay away!

no way - I'm picking it up as I go along and all advice welcomed with open arms!