First time veg grower: I have been lurking this topic and it's now time to post some questions

[FannyPriceless]

OK, firstly - it's really interesting venturing into a corner of MN where I've never been before. It's a whole other world. I'm thinking that you lot have got the knowledge I need and hoping you don't mind sharing it with a numpty who needs some really basic things explained.

We have moved to a new house which has a raised bed which I assume is/was a vegetable patch. It's about 3 ft x 7 ft. I want to grow things that we will definitely eat, and that are relatively easy so that our first experience is a good one. My list of possibles includes potatoes (we love Charlottes), courgettes, broccoli, lettuce, carrots, and broad beans. We also love leeks, cabbage, butternut squash, onions and many others but I'm not aiming to grow those as I don't want to be too ambitious to start with. Unless they're really easy?

1. I browsed a catalogue that said you can buy either seeds, plugs or ready growing plants. I assume seeds are cheapest but what should I go for?

1. I went to a nursery today but they had no Charlottes left. Can I just plant actual potatoes I have bought at the shops, if I let them sprout for a bit?

1. I bought some courgette seeds, carrot seeds, and broad bean seeds. What do I do with these now?

1. At the nursery I spent ages looking at 'propogation' stuff but in the end didn't buy anything as I don't know what I'm doing! I have a warm kitchen windowsill and a sunny windowsill in the shed. I gather it seems I have to plant the seeds in the little tray things then transfer outside? Any tips?

1. If I want a steady flow of veg instead of e.g. all the broccoli at the same time, do I plant seeds at different times? Or transfer them outside at different times?

1. What do I do to the raised bed before I plant anything? A few weeds have appeared which I'll obviously get rid of. Do I dig it up/hoe it? Water it? Add compost?

Any help at all with any of the above questions would be appreciated. Or anything else you think I need to know. Many thanks.

Onions are super easy to grow, they have no predators and really look after themselves, buy some sets and pop them in!

Seeds are indeed the cheapest option, but if you want to get a head start (or are lacking a greenhouse like moi) purchase some plugs or small plants, I've recently purchased some carrots and leeks as plugs and they're already thriving

You can use shop bought potatoes if you chit them first, pop them in egg boxes and leave them to sprout in a well lit spot (a windowsill will do), once the shoots are about 1 inch long they are ready to go outside.

As I've no greenhouse I start all my seedlings off in trays on the kitchen windowsill, I also make good use of the bay windows in the other rooms ...I'm overrun with sweet peas, lavender and herbs at the mo! Once they've got going I pop them outside on the patio during the day and bring them back inside in the evening, I do this until they're ready to go outside permanently. The seed /plant label instructions will tell you when to plant outside, sow indoors etc.

For a steady flow succession planting is the way to go, space out the planting of the same crops every 2-4 weeks or so, this way you won't be overrun with veg that may be wasted.

Dig the bed over, remove weeds etc, you can add some well rotted manure or soil conditioner to improve the soil if you wish, otherwise just get planting! Water the bed once you planted your vegetables.

Good luck, happy planting and keep us posted!

It's getting late but I didnt want to leave your post unanswered.

If you ask 10 gardeners for opinions then you will probably get 12 replies! 3 feet by 7 feet is probably too small for things like potatoes. Do you have room for some grow bags/sacks as well? Given that space is at a premium this year you could look at growing a few things to try and then see what you like. Take a look at which fresh vegetables are expensive

1 Seeds will be cheapest normally. Some of the seed suppliers will give you an idea of how easy difficult the seeds are to germinate. The easier they are the more worthwhile seeds will be.

2 Does it have to be Charlottes? Many of the nurseries have other waxy salad varieties. IMO Juliettes knock Charlottes into a cocked hat. To create space for potatoes you could buy a bag of compost, put it on its end and grow them in that - 3 seed potatoes to a bag.

3 I havent planted my courgette seeds yet. In a couple of weeks I will put 1 per paper pot into a propagator in my greenhouse. You could put yours 1 per plastic cup onto your windowsill inside a sealed plastic bag. This just keeps the warmth up. You really will only need a max of a couple of courgette plants. I had 4 last year and didnt buy a single courgette in the shops. The plants get quite big so you may want to try these in grow bags. I would do something similar with the broad bean seeds to get them started - plant up say around a dozen seeds. When these have germinated you can put them in the garden planted about 9 inches apart both ways. That would give you a couple of short (3 foot) rows of broad beans. The carrots can go straight into the bed. Follow the instructions on the packet.

4 No special propagation kit is really necessary. I have a greenhouse and an electric propagator but then I have a gadget obsession and an allotment to fill. With a small bed such as yours work out what will work on a small scale.

5 As we get to the end of the frosts you will find that many seeds can be sowed directly into the ground. Plant just a few at a time and then harvest as you need. Salad leaves are especially good for this.

6 Dig over the bed going a good fork length down to make sure the soil is really well broken up. Look at the soil, if it looks to be good quality (doesnt make clay balls between your fingers or blow away like dust) then I probably wouldnt add anything this year except perhaps something simple like poultry manure (you can buy this in many places). As you plant things then water as you go. As the bed is raised this is something I would say you will need to keep an eye on.

As space is at a premium how about looking at growing some tomatoes in a grow bag outside? Gardener's delight is an outdoor variety I think. IMO avoid Moneymaker as it tastes of cotton wool!

How about growing some herbs? Chives, basil, rosemary, bay are all well worth while as being particularly good fresh.

Happy gardening!

cross posted Melina!

^ ...you've given me some good ideas too, thank you!!!

A good website is www.growveg.com it can help with planning and spacing. They give a 30 day free trial. It is useful for daydreaming!

This is great - thank you so much! I have a busy day today but if I get a chance I'll come back and post again as you have raised a whole lot more questions!

If you do carrots they don't transfer well, they are best planted straight out.they need to be above 1ft to avoid carrot fly. Although you could surround them in onions which disguises smell from the carrots.

I do them in pots/window boxes. They taste so much better than shop ones.

(carrots are one of my obsessions,along with tomatoes)

Just had a quick look at the website GnomeDePlume, shall be putting the free trial to good use, it's lovely

I agree Harriet, shop bought carrots are tasteless, plus I love the weird and wonderful shaped veg that I get at home!!!

Finally back - so sorry it's been full on today.

Thanks so much for the advice. I feel like I'm learning loads already.

More questions:
melina What is a set? What is chit?

I have weeded the bed today and noticed that the soil seems quite dry and crumbly. Your post suggests I don't need to water it until after I have planted. Is this right? There are three enormous bags of compost left here by the previous owner. I'm thinking of adding one to the bed. Correct? gnome Why do you suggest not adding anything this year?

For the flow succession, mel you say I plant out every 2-3 weeks. So do I plant the seeds on the windowsill all at the same time, but just move them out at different times? Or do I plant the seeds on the windowsill at different times?

I actually avoided buying a tray of 12 broccoli seedlings from the nursery because I thought that meant they would all mature at the same time. But could I just hold some back inside and gradually move out into the patch a few at a time?

gnome Thanks for the tip about the Juliettes. I think you are right about not putting potatoes in the bed. I have a lot of big pots and tubs with nothing in them. Will that be better or worse than just putting potatoes into the compost bag?

I still don't understand propogation kit. You have an electric one? So confused. I was looking at little plastic trays with a clear lid over the top. I don't think I have enough yoghurt pots to do it that way, so will have to buy something.

There is another bed with herbs already growing in it. Growing herbs is something I have done before in pots. This bed is in the shadiest part of the garden, and is covered in moss. Despite this there is thriving rosemary and sage, and some thyme which I'm coaxing back to life. I am going to grow parsley and basil elsewhere, and plant a bay tree. Is there anything else I could plant in the spare space in this shady bed?

There is also a lot of other spare space in the garden as a whole. There's a rough patch under some trees at the back. Anything I could grow there? (shady)

I have bought some pumpkin seeds for DD to make her project, but I think this won't fit in the bed, will it? Could it go next to the trees?

From all the replies, it seems I should plant the carrot and lettuce seeds straight into the bed (once I get the courage up!).

I have downloaded a growing guide from the Suttons website which lists timing, spacing, etc.

One more question - there is a frame thing made of wood, quite tall with four legs, each of which is in a flower pot. DH and I have deduced that this is for growing sweet peas? I have bought four sweet pea seedling thingies. Do I just plant these? They are on the windowsill at the moment. Stupid question alert - sweet peas are just flowers, aren't they? I mean, they are not actually peas to eat? Or are they? Do I need to put string on the wood frame? It has little nails on it.

So sorry for these mammoth posts! I have so many questions. Thanks again. I'm already really excited!

Sets are just the 'gardening term' for onion bulbs, chitting is the process of the sprouts growing on the seed potatoes

Plant the seeds on your sill at 2-3 week intervals, and then planting out should follow at 2-3 week intervals too ...keep a little calendar/chart and mark the seed trays with numbers/dates etc, it can become quite confusing

The plastic trays with the lids work really well, I've got some on the go at the mo.

How about some mint, lemon balm, chives or purple sage. You could always have a little of each though You could also pop some Box (Buxus Semperviren) in amongst the herbs for a spot of evergreen structure.

I'd probably grow some flower bulbs/shrubs in the spot by the shady trees, bluebells, snowdrops etc.. Elephant ears grow really well in shade too.

I've absolutely no idea what the wooden, leggy, pot implement is for, I'm sure someone will be along to enlighten us soon!

Yes sweet peas are just flowers, I used to think the flowers were edible but no, they are rather poisonous! Keep harvesting the flowers as this encourages more to grow, they smell absolutely divine dotted about the house in jam jars! Sweet peas do need string/twigs to support them, I make wigwams and dot them around the garden

Have fun! x

an electric propogator is one with a heated bottom: it's for places that aren't warm like greenhouses and for things that need to be warm to start growing, like pumpkins or tomatoes. if you are starting seed indoors you won't need one.

There is compost and compost - what else does it say on the bag? If it says 'seed and cutting compost' or 'multipurpose' compost then don't dig it in to the bed, it's for putting in pots and growing things in, although if it's a bit old then you should buy fresh for seeds and pots and just dig it in anyway. If it says something like 'soil conditioner' then dig it in by all means. If it says anything else let us know.

I suspect your leggy thing is a structure for growing beans or sweet peas up. The feet are in pots to discourage snails climbing up the poles and eating the beans. Possibly. And it will probably need string or more poles for the beans to climb up it.

By four sweet pea thingies do you mean four little plants, or four little pots with lots of plants in them? You will need more than four plants. Lots more. Buy seed, sweet peas are really easy to grow.

Shady spots are difficult but you could try some of the cranesbills - perennial geraniums. Ask at a nursery or garden centre, plenty are tough enough for shade under a tree. also ferns, and you could give lilly of the valley a go - it will eitehr take over rampantly or die in a big sulk, nothing inbetween.

If your soil is in good heart (a lovely expression I think) ie not clay or dust then it probably doesnt need any more adding than something like poultry manure which will give it a bit of zip. I think of compost as being a bit like fibre in your diet.

The potatoes will be perfectly happy in either pots or bags, they arent fussy. You wont get a huge crop so you could look at growing something really special like fir apple.

Other herbs for your herb bed - thyme and tarragon.

Pumpkins do spread around, one plant could take over most of your bed so possibly best avoided.

I have an electric propagator because I dont have room in the house to start seeds going. The propagator provides a bit of heat which gives seeds a boost. Also I like gadgets.

The compost is old and says 'multipurpose'. The bags have been sitting outside since last year and have large holes in them. Can I maybe grow the potatoes in this?

I forgot to mention there is also a large wooden proper compost bin. We have put some grass clippings in it but I haven't investigated what is at the bottom. There's quite a lot in there. What if anything should I do with that?

The sweet peas have about 10 shoots per little pot. I will put some string on the frame. There are no instructions on the label about when to put them outside. What do you suggest? Do I need to do a little outside time each day before planting? (Which plants need that?)

So I take it no vegetables at all like the shade? Bummer as there is a lot of space there.

I can't believe I might actually become a 'real' gardener!

The compost in the bags probably doesnt have a lot to add nutritionally speaking. You could dig it into the bed to add a bit of 'roughage' For the potatoes you could take some of the soil from the bed add some poultry manure (sorry I keep going on about bird poo), some compost and put this in your potato pots.

You can buy books on the subject of compost (quite sadly I have one). If you leave it long enough anything can be composted however the general advice is to not compost cooked food to avoid attracting rats. The really good thing about a compost bin is that if you dont over fill it in one go and just steadily add grass cuttings, weedings, cardboard (egg boxes etc) then you may find that you never really fill it up!

My sweet peas are still in my green house, I will bring them out once they are at the point that they need support.

The risk this time of year is seeds which arent hardy and which are at risk of being killed off by a frost. Check seed packets. If the packet says that something can go outside in March then there shouldnt be too much trouble.

The potatoes should be fine in the left over compost.

Is there a sliding door at the bottom of the compost bin? If so take some of whatever's in there out and have a good look at it, it may well be lovely crumbly compost ready to use on your new patch

Depending on where you are in the country they should be fine to go outside now, apparently April's going to be warm and sunny so any seedlings, plants should get off to a flying start! I'm going to plant out mine this weekend ...I'm in the South West. I've had mine sat on the patio these last few days just to acclimatise themselves to the change in temperature, but it's probably warmer out than inside with my house!!! Haha!

I've just googled vegetables and shade and come up with this: organicgardening.about.com/od/vegetablesherbs/a/shadeveggies.htm It depends how shady the spot is!

No, not a sign of middle age I love the garden, would be lost without it ...I'm a student in my 20's!

A small note of caution on late frosts - it really does depend on where you are in the country. I'm in the midlands so will still be at risk of frosts until May - Melina may well be through the last of the frosts being in the South West. Last year many of the allotment holders lost their first runner bean plantings because of being caught out by a frost at the end of April.

Thanks gnome. I am also in the midlands.

I dug over the patch down to fork length today which was bizarrely satisfying! The soil looks quite good I think - dark and crumbly. There are a few stones. Is this a problem? I removed any really big ones.

I asked on the webchat on here pSt year about veg/ shade and was told most were ok. I've not avoided anything in our new bed which is shaded by a wall.

Small stones will aid drainage ...that's what I tell myself anyway!

I've not been as productive as you Fanny, shall get stuck in at the weekend, I'm determined to have a go with fruit this year, I love Raspberries!

I certainly second fruit growing. This is when grow your own can make economic sense. Nearly half my allotment is fruit. We are still eating the strawberry jam I made last year.

^Umm strawberry jam! ..I've actually got a few strawberries plants, but they're not very productive! Any tips Gnome? I'm toying with blackcurrant's and blueberries too!

One of the reasons I'm going for it this year is that until we moved we have been living with a tiny garden, but surrounded by friendly neighbours with gardens/allotments/farms. The village seemed to specialise in raspberries and we had competing neighbours leaving tubs of amazing raspberries for us! We ate them by the bowlful. I would highly recommend.

And we have to grow cougettes as my DD (2.7) is crazy for them due to the same neighbours leaving courgettes on the doorstep during her weaning. Yummy yum!

Love courgettes, they're particularly yummy grilled on the BBQ with a dash of olive oil and some herbs

mmmm...courgettes

These are good to grow. They can be grown from seed quite easily. Just follow the instructions on the pack. A couple of plants should be sufficiant.

Melina - is it possible that your strawberry plants are more than 3 years old? From what I have read that is a good age for a strawberry plant. I will be looking to replace my 3+ year old strawberry plants at the end of the season. I will also move the bed at the same time. This is supposed to stop the build up of pests.

Check your soil - blueberries need to go into an acid soil I believe.

Ahhh that'll be it!!! Thank you Gnome, I'll add some new plants to the ever growing garden centre list, tomorrow's going to be a busy day! I'm thinking of putting the blueberries in large pots, I'll get some ericaceous compost for them too, thank you again!
May try some strawbs in hanging baskets this year too, the tumbling toms seemed to work well last year