Will missing Further Maths in Year 12 affect aerospace engineering options?

[Givemestrengthwontyou]

My son has just started college doing a levels in Maths, Physics and Chemistry. He was always going to do Further Maths too but changed his mind on enrolment day. He now regrets that. He got grade 8 in all the above gcses and wants to go to Uni next and possibly do Aerospace Engineering or similar. He is only 4 weeks into yr 12 and asked about starting FM but they've said no as it's full/won't fit in with his current timetable. They have said he could start it in yr 13 but then he'd only get half an A level? Would that count for anything? I know he's angry with himself for not doing it from the start and I'm wondering if that decision will affect his next steps? Any advice appreciated.

No it won’t, our school offered it but they only got a 7 for GCSE so wasn’t allowed to do FM. Still got a very comfortable B at A level and has just started aero engineering degree. None of their offers stipulated FM either and they got 5/5 all of which are high ranked universities.

I dont think anywhere is allowed to specifically say they require FM because some schools dont offer it and it would be unfair to applicants from those areas.
DS got offeres from Bath,Leeds,Sheffield,Southampton and imperial with just maths,physics and chemistry

Did he get an 8 in maths GCSE @Givemestrengthwontyou ? A 9 is usually an absolute prerequisite for FM A level.

Very few courses will insist on further maths and as other have said it would be better for to get high grades in 3 A levels. Some places will give an alternative offers for Further maths A or AS e.g. Sheffield and Bath.

He could look at the content for AS further maths especially the mechanics modules for the syllabus offered at his school.

FM 100% should be allowed with an 8. Shame on the schools who don’t!

The argument is that if you're not comfortably getting a 9 at GCSE, you will really struggle with FM and would be better putting all your efforts into maths. The FM class often covers the maths syllabus in the first year of A level then moves on to FM so they go very quickly.

I teach it, successfully, to kids who got an 8. The school may want to make things easier for themselves but preventing kids who want to do an additional maths qualification from doing so even though they may well be capable (allowing them to start with 4 and then drop one is useful here), is not good for those kids or the economy.

I haven't come across a school requiring 9 for FM! Is that private?

DS1's school requires 7 but prefers 8/9

DS2's school requires 8+

Their previous school requires 7+

OP, my DS read mechanical engineering at a Russell Group university - he said all the people on his course who hadn’t done further maths ended up changing to a different course, because they couldn’t keep up with the maths.

The 3 I'm thinking of are private.

FM with a 7 at GCSE? I'm surprised. Would be interested to know what grades those with a 7 get in FM. Seems setting them up to fail.

Agree with this. For some careers, such as engineering, getting a C in FM would be way more useful than an A in Geography.
Restricting choices except for super high achievers isn't good - we need people who can do maths.

I agree-IF you would get a C! It's quite a gamble!

Hmm. Its not just about the maths though is it?
The trouble with weaker mathematicians taking FM is that they generally hedge their bets by taking it as a fourth.So not only do they struggle more trying to get to grips with the mathmatical concepts, they face the double whammy of more workload /content and fewer free periods yi do it in!
This creates a knock on effect on their other subjects as they spread themselves too thin.

Exactly. The schools I am thinking of generally discourage 4 A levels unless the 4th is FM and the student has a 9 at GCSE maths.

I just looked at our FM results last year, we had a kid who had a 7 at GCSE get a C, the ones who had 8s got B’s and an A.

Well, they are doing some of their students a disservice, in my opinion. My DS “only” got an 8 in GCSE maths, but is taking FM as his 4th A-level and is predicted Astar in A-level maths and A in FM…. And the school never questioned his A-level choices.

My children achieved grade 8 Maths GCSE and went on to achieve very solid A grades in FM (as a fourth subject). There were fellow students who attained grade 9 at Maths GCSE and who had to drop out of FM - so a 'grade 9 only' filter is too coarse.

My children's school taught FM in parallel to Maths, so you got early exposure to FM in Y12 and, for some, it was helpful in deciding to press on or to drop the subject. I notice on these threads that a fair number of selective schools (state and independent) teach Maths and FM in sequence, with Maths A level sat at the end of Y12 and the FM syllabus not really touched until the very end of Y12. I can see that it is easier to organise for the school but does put off those (like my children) who want the chance to grow into their FM. There are tales of woe each year on these threads about students who attained grade 9 Maths but missed an Astar in A level Maths at the end of Y12, which then potentially compromised uni choices. So, what is in the institution's interest is not necessarily in the student's interest.

Returning to the OP's son, some perspective is needed. There will still be plenty of engineering options open without higher level maths having been studied but the college has offered the opportunity to study some of the FM syllabus in Y13 and potentially take (by the sounds of it) AS FM which might be helpful preparation for the underlying maths at uni level engineering. In the meantime, in Y12, they can concentrate on really nailing down their other three subjects

He shouldn’t need the Further Maths to get into a degree course, however my DS found the maths made the first year of his engineering degree much easier. There were other people on his course that didn’t have Further Maths and they got through okay. Taking four A levels can potentially reduce your overall three best grades so, at this point, it’s probably only worth adding in the Further Maths AS level if he feels he can handle it and it will be worth it to him. Further Maths is very different to Maths at A level as topics build directly on each other so you have to be very on it right from the start. Missing four weeks could easily make it very difficult to catch up.

😂😂 what’s the point of it then if the country’s brightest students are warned off it. It’s further maths not solving world peace.