A levels for a biology degree

[Desert76]

DD is in year 11, so just starting to think about applying for 6th form and A levels.

At the moment, she thinks she wants to do a biology degree.

She’s thinking of A levels in Biology, maths and English language, all of which she enjoys and is predicted good grades in.

We’ve looked at entry requirements at a few universities - most want two sciences, including biology or chemistry, so maths would count as the second science.

Some say they want biology AND chemistry, or that chemistry is highly recommended, or have a lower offer if you have chemistry.

The thing is, DD doesn’t really like chemistry. She’s predicted a 6 for GCSE when all her other predictions are 7 and 8s.

So the questions are:
Should she do A level chemistry? (I strongly feel she shouldn’t, best to do what you enjoy)

Given she doesn’t really like chemistry, should she actually rethink the biology degree, even if the entry requirements would allow her in? - is it going to be lots of chemistry? Or can she maybe avoid it with judicious choice of optional modules?

She prefers human biology to plants at the moment.

Dd did Biology at Warwick with Maths, Biol and French. If they don't do Chem A level they are required to do a Chem module in the first year. Dd had no issues and got a first. She converted to an Integrated Masters

Might be worth getting a chemistry tutor? If she gets better at chemistry she might enjoy it more. I’m sure a biology degree is going to be easier if you have done A-Level chemistry.

Probably Biomedical Science.

@SoftIce i think the Kings course was called anatomy and human biology.

I meant say - DC1 got some extra help from one of the science teachers in y10 with chemistry. It wasn’t going well. That helped and in fact so much so that DC1 ended up doing a degree in it and getting a 1st!

Right, we’ve had a further look and it seems like we looked at the only ones that need chemistry . We looked up human bio on UCAS, perhaps that’s why?

Dd is sanguine about chem modules at university, but doesn’t want to change any of the A level picks.

If she already enjoys Biology and Maths and is getting stronger grades in them, I’d be inclined to keep those rather than choosing Chemistry just because it’s traditionally associated with Biology degrees. It’s definitely worth checking the exact requirements for the universities she might apply to, though, as they can vary quite a bit.
Also, if she’s more interested in human biology, there are plenty of degree areas beyond a straight Biology degree that might suit her, such as human biology, biomedical science, physiology or neuroscience. Has she had a look at those yet?

Dd found her offer grades were reduced due to her taking biology and chemistry. It wasn’t essential but dd decided it would be helpful despite it not being her favourite. She also took ancient history because it’s fun. She starts biological sciences degree next week.

How can you like Biology but not Chemistry? Chemistry is the central science. I would have thought you need Maths s well.

Because a lot of the Chemistry syllabus is non-organic!

@dustabsorber , I don’t know really, she just isn’t that enthusiastic about chem at the moment - although at this age, it can depend a bit on the teacher, I would have thought.

She really likes maths, and was seriously considering further maths too, and even a maths degree, but has decided she doesn’t want to work in an office, and thinks biology has more chance of variety of workplace.

@ainawatson we will check those other options out. We already looked at genetics (thumbs up) and microbiology (unsure).
Though isn’t neuroscience mainly chemistry?

My advice - take a broad straight biology degree. Specialise at Masters. She’ll do things at UG she hates that she thought she’d love, and discover topics she loves that she currently thinks she’ll hate!

AL Bio is already vastly different to GCSE - as she’ll find out.

My DS took bio maths and PE (so bio again haha). He was not keen on chem at all. In fact at one point he was doubtful about one of his choices (forget which) and I suggested chem instead and he was “no way”. So it is more than possible. I think rather than disliking it he found it a challenge.

Please just let her get settled at college and enjoy her subjects. It seems like you are pushing chemistry?

If you look up the entry requirements for biology at Imperial, Bath & Durham (all CUG top 5) none require chemistry. They want biology + another science. Multiple posters have said that their children were successful at biology degrees at selective universities without chemistry A level. It definitely seems like chemistry at a level isn’t essential.
My only caveat would be that if she doesn’t enjoy chemistry at GCSE level will she enjoy biology at degree level? I don’t know enough about biology degrees to say. I don’t know how variable they are and whether some focus more on biochemistry than others. However, I really wouldn’t choose a level chemistry if it isn’t a particular interest and strength at gcse. I did it (in the dark ages) and enjoyed it, but it was intense with a lot of complex content. You quickly realise that what you have been taught at gcse are very simplified models.

Now we have zillions of university places for most subjects, standards have been lowered to get bums on seats. Few biology courses are competitive and that’s why chemistry no longer matters. Make the entry too onerous and even fewer dc are qualified. There are not enough chemistry A level candidates to go around.

It's not that chemistry no longer matters, it's that the brightest kids can pick up A Level Chemistry in their first year. That's why they are required to do a chemistry module in their first year if they didn't do Chem A level. (At Warwick for example)

Yeah Oxford and Imperial are desperate for applicants - that must be why they don’t require Chem A level.

Yes she will likely enjoy biology, enjoying chemistry too is not a prerequisite. There is some overlap of course but if she did quite a broad Biology degree she could choose modules that are more to her interest.
This is what I would advise anyway then she can narrow down what she likes by the third year when there are more optional modules and a choice of honours projects.

My son is going Biology at Bath without having done Maths or Chemistry A level and is doing well. It might have helped him but he’s coped well without it.

@titchy You can wisecrack all you like but posters believed that years ago they did. Do you know what % at those two universities don’t have chemistry? Requiring it and successful applicants having it are completely different things. Outside the top 6 or 10 unis, biology might well be in clearing! There are many non competitive courses.

Plenty of the competitive unis don’t ask for Chem. Durham used to - they trialled not asking for it, then permanently dropped the requirement 12 years ago when they realised that there was no difference in outcomes.

OP is asking about entry to reasonably competitive unis - Chem is not needed for most. Reasonably capable and interested biologists can get to grips with any chemistry-adjacent content.

Your assertion that Chem doesn’t matter because Bio isn’t competitive is clearly wrong given the most competitive places don’t need it. Oxford and Imperial don’t need to flex their entry requirement.

As I said, I have a biologist who didn’t do Chem (or Maths) A level and managed perfectly well.

I did a biosciences degree and I’m afraid biology and chemistry go hand in hand - I didn’t like chemistry A-level, it’s brutal and a bit yawn but it’s really useful. Some uni’s may not insist on it and maybe things have changed

@titchy I’m saying posters do believe chemistry was needed. I’m saying not now because many unis have relaxed their subject requirements. There are plenty of biology degrees in clearing. What Durham probably realised is there’s not enough people taking Chemistry A level to fill the courses. It’s not really about outcomes because how would they have known if students all had chemistry? The trial was short. Plus courses are altered. The chemistry leaning core can be amended.

I asked how many at the most competitive unis DID take chemistry though? Doctors do, so are those degrees taking the students with chemistry? Or chemistry itself? When unis say they don’t need FM, we find nearly every successful applicant has it. I suspect elite unis still like to see chemistry and I look forward to seeing data on what % of biology students at elite unis don’t have it.