Psychology AND sociology alevel

[rainsbows]

Does anyone have any thoughts on doing both of these as alevel? Are they too similar? Are they seen as rigorous by Russell group universities? Dd is also doing history and wants to do law. She’s loving all three subjects.

Option b is to do psychology, history and English literature - the more traditional route. She got 9s at gcse but doesn’t love English.

I’m of the mindset that she should do what she enjoys, ie, the former. But quietly nervous she’ll be limiting her options.

I taught Psychology and Sociology and the similarity is the research methods module which is common to both.

She hasn’t picked up a book for pleasure in many years!! Noted.

I guess she feels she’s good at all the analysis stuff and got a high 9. She also thinks it “sounds more academic” than sociology.

But I’d probably have to agree it’s not the natural choice.

The sounds more academic thing is largely snobbery which they pick up amazingly quickly!

I teach both and sociology is more traditionally academic in its approach - theory, studies , theorists, societal change and debates. This actively supports other subjects really well in a way English often doesn't. English students often don't actually learn about feminism and feminists , for example, in any real depth : but they do of course encounter feminist writers. Sociology is really the only A level subject which properly considers postmodernism, right wing views, Marxism and so on in any real depth

English is excellent for teaching skills of really close attention to detail and analysis.

Both hone essay skills and academic expression and the English has NEA so editing skills and adhering to feedback are required. The refinement of one's own writing is so lacking from much A level study these days.

They are both excellent in terms of the skills taught for a subject like Law.

I wholeheartedly agree : if she does not (will not) read , English is not ideal.

I'm not completely anti AI for decision making but its sources for something which is this kind of choice may not be very objective (or recent).

Umm, yeah. All A levels have been 'reformed' since then.

You may have found it 'a piece of piss' after only having done AS but I am guessing you had a super duper memory and excellent writing skills.

100% marks are almost completely unknown in essay subjects. The sociology AS was considerably lighter in its written demands than the full A level where short answers largely disappear and you have to learn a gazillion theories and studies.

Absolutely fine. She’s doing history which is usually seen as a facilitating subject so combining it with sociology and psychology seems like a good choice. Also useful for criminology which is often combined with a law degree.

Not sure I would describe sociology as a piece of piss compared with history having had a ds who has just done both. There is a lot of content and quite demanding templates for answering the questions. It has a low proportion of A grades compare to othee subjects which may well be because people do it because they think it will be a piece of piss 😁

Like @Piggywaspushed I have taught A-Level English and for students who are not self-directed readers, who enjoy reading widely, getting them to do enough to pass, much less achieve a high grade, is like pulling teeth. If your DD's aim is to have a well-rounded profile and high grades for uni entry, and she is not a natural reader, then she will be wasting her time doing English. Otherwise, it's a good subject to have, but not if you're just going to come out with a mediocre grade in it.

DS is currently trying to pick between sociology and English . Eng lit was his top gcse but he didn’t read for pleasure - so I’ve discouraged him from doing it .

I think he will pick Sociology - he finds it interesting - and I think that’s the best way to get good grades .

Good luck to your DC in her decision

It is completely natural to feel nervous about limiting her options, but your gut instinct is spot on—she should definitely do what she enjoys. Russell Group universities do not view A-Level Law and Psychology as too similar because they test entirely different skill sets, with Law focusing on logical reasoning and statutory interpretation while Psychology involves scientific methodology and data analysis. While a few ultra-traditional law faculties historically preferred pure essay subjects, virtually all top universities accept Law, especially when it is backed up by History, which is seen as a gold-standard facilitating subject. Furthermore, forcing herself through English Literature when she doesn't love it could backfire, as genuine enthusiasm and enjoyment almost always translate into the higher grades she will need for competitive law courses.

Yes, my DS did both, too - and economics. All challenging in their own ways. He liked his (brilliant) economics teacher the best, did the best work for his economics and sociology teachers but loved history as a learning experience and a class the most. He ended up doing a history degree -which he always said he was best prepared for by sociology A level!

My friend’s DD took sociology and psychology A levels (and English) and received offers from all 5 of the RG unis she applied to, including Warwick.

@rainsbows I have a young relative who did Psychology, Sociology and Biology at A level, then Neuroscience at an RG uni. She then got a law training contract from a law firm that specifically recruits STEM graduates for its patent, regulatory and litigation work.

If asked, she would say that Sociology A level was a waste of her time. It clearly didn't hold her back though.

@rainsbows. There’s a load of reading in a law degree and most lawyers have to read a lot and analyse what they read. As a result, a literature based A level is important.

Some law courses are competitive at RG and others not so much. However within RG there are the LNAT unis who require this extra test. They are the top law schools and tend to be competitive.

The other good option is a MFL. The A level advice from Cambridge for a competitive application is 2 from English Lit, History, a MFL or Maths. They say they are the best prep for law. The two “ology” subjects she’s doing should be reduced to one. However if she’s truly not into reading, I’d swerve law. However if she was likely to get a B in English, stay as she is, but these A levels are not best prep for a top university. If she nails LNAT they might not matter though.

Thank you for your reply.

She always had history, English literature and psychology as firm trio; the first two she achieved the highest grade 9s in her school. Sociology was initially just put down as something to fill the fourth slot. She’s now surprised herself by how much she’s enjoyed it. I agree from a traditional standpoint, literature is the better subject. From an interest perspective, it’s sociology.

Her grade profile for gcse was mixed - 999887666 so I don’t think she’ll hit the top Russell groups, more mid-tier. I think they only look at top eight GCSEs so can discard one of the 6s.

Ultimately she needs to achieve three A/A* . She has history as at least one traditional, facilitating subject. Is English literature particularly hard to achieve the top grade?

Shes also doing an essay based EPQ.

@rainsbows My DDs didn’t take Eng Lit. I think her grade profile is good but she’d taking 2 new subjects and only one that better unis like. Middle RG won’t care but why not go for an LNAT one? Better job prospects.

I do know not all dc are aiming for Cambridge but their A level advice is still spot on for the better unis where there’s competition. Some won’t look at GCSEs either. Bristol does (for example) and they are LNAT. Also do consider the reading and analysis issue. It’s what lawyers do.

She’s set on sociology, psychology and history.

What swung it was seeing how it’s 94/95% to get an A* in English literature - about 16/18% higher than virtually every other subject! Ultimately she needs three top grades and she’s got history as her traditional in there.

thanks all.

@rainsbowsI don’t believe those figures are correct. Way too high for A level. What are her sources for this? I’ve seen nearer 77%.

chat gpt / ocr publish their grade boundaries

Yes, it is correct.

It doesn't necessarily mean it's harder as it will reflect that a lot of candidates get very high marks.

OCR tends to be used more by very selective schools ( for reasons of tradition) so a lot of very high achievers. It also has NEA which tends to push top grade boundaries upwards.

My subject is also one that expects over 90% for an A star. We do still get them!

Great choice @rainsbows , it sounds like she really enjoys those subjects. For what it's worth, I think it is the safer choice, since with English + History, she would have had two NEAs to do - now she can focus on one - and marking for English is probably more subjective than for sociology.

But out of curiosity, why are people saying that someone with a 9 in GCSE English Lit who does not read "for pleasure" should not take English A-level? Is there really any independent reading at A-level? I thought it was just more set texts, and she is clearly happy to read those and capable of thinking deeply about them, or she wouldn't have got a 9 at GCSE.

That you don't read more than the set texts isn't a sign that you hate reading, IMO, just a sign that there are other things you like doing in your free time, too.

A Level English language relates in no way to GCSE, A Level Literature demands in reading independently, analysis and thought are also streets apart (though in the same neighbourhood) to GCSE. It’s possible she doesn’t like English because it’s taught formulaically at GCSE and the heavy content basically kills enjoyment. Get her to look at the course content for A Level and speak to someone who is doing it at her school. It can really fly in the right hands, or sink like a stone.

She’s done three weeks of all subjects and has now decided to drop English. She’s simply not enjoying it and enjoyment just has to trump everything.

@rainsbows Depends what RG uni she’s aiming at too. Some require LNAT so she needs to be aware of that. She might find the elite ones are less achievable with these choices.

That sounds like a good decision to me.

Most universities are more flexible than Cambridge. For example...

Oxford state "An essay subject can be helpful when completing this course but is not required for admission."

Bristol say "We do not require any specific subjects for Law. We look for the best three A-Levels and eight best GCSEs. We do not accept General Studies as an A-Level or the Extended Project Qualification (EPQ). If you complete an EPQ on a law-related subject, you can mention it in your personal statement. "

Edit to add: I know you said she's not aiming at these universities - this is just as an example.