Strange choice of A levels?

[fluffythecat1]

Took son to his sixth form college enrolment today. He is doing computer science, biology and geography. The person enrolling him commented that it was an unusual choice of subjects, just wanted to see what other people thought. He got three 8s, 3 7s, two 6s and a 5 in his GCSEs, 77 for combined sciences, 8 for geography and a 5 for computer science, which is the subject that he is most interested in. Hs CS teacher at secondary was not great and he got a 5 in that subject, I don’t think that he was taught the whole curriculum. He will prob go to uni but to a mid tariff uni that doesn’t need A level maths for CS, or he may go the geography/environmental science direction and do a degree in that at a Russell Group. Do people think he has good options with these A levels? His main priority is a career that is well paid where possible.

many students who take a levels go down either the traditional stem route or the traditional humanities route or the languages route.

your dc is trying to keep his options open which is fine.

i presume he’s not interested in the traditional maths/CS/ with a third of either further maths or physics which is fairly common for many students considering CS.

I think a lot of people who do a science subject, do it alongside other sciences and or maths. So perhaps they are a little unusual in that respect. Bit of he enjoyed Biology then it was probably the right choice for him.

He likes CS and has a 6 for maths GCSE, however he doesn’t love maths so we felt that it would be pushing water uphill for him to do maths A level. He got 8/8 for English Language and Literature, however thinks that ‘there’s no money in it,’ so doesn’t want to do that at A level. You’re right that he is keeping his options open, if he were to go to university (will likely apply for apprenticeships alongside), redeeming the cost of it is a big factor now.

I would say that a 5 in CS at GCSE does not set him up for success at A level especially if it's something he is saying he wants to do at uni. If he was interested in CS he would really need to be doing maths even if a mid tariff doesnt need it, many unis do ask for maths for a reason, it really helps. So I am not sure why CS is his pick. With the advent of AI, I would say that to earn a lot in this field you need to really be quite strong and not having maths may place him at a disadvantage.
Would he not consider one of the other subjects he got 8 in?

Thank you, yes he likes biology and he enjoyed the lesson at his taster day which swayed him from history.

They are a bit of a miss-match.
One science, one tech and one humanities.
I suppose if he hasn't got a specific goal in mind (other than "well paid") then if they are simply subjects he enjoys then it's probably fine.

I disagree and think it’s quite an ideal combo. Geography and biology go well together and with the future of global warming/ renewable energies and the associated technologies to deal with the change in climate, the computer science goes well. An understanding of both the physical and biological world plus computer skills sounds quite employable.

Computer science, biology and geography seems like a pretty standard combination to me! In fact it’s what my daughter selected.

She wants to do geo/environmental sciences at uni both of which have a significant CS component.

It is a good combination for an environmental department in an engineering company - using Geographic Information Systems for mapping, for example.

Thank you, that is reassuring, our local uni (which he could attend whilst living at home, saving tens of thousands in maintenance loans), has a highly rated geography department, which could be a good target. 100% agree on the issue of climate change etc.

It really is an unusual combination. https://analytics.ofqual.gov.uk/apps/Alevel/SubjectCombinations/
About 45 students took it this year.

Biology and Geography go well. Computer science A level is quite a hard one to get a high grade in. GCSE grade 5 and 6 in maths isn't the best start. Even Universities which don't ask for A level maths for Computer Science degrees will have a minimum GCSE grade and/or ask for science A level (which he will have). I would query choosing it if it's only because he thinks it will lead to a well paid career and not because he really enjoys it.

Definitely don't do A level maths from a 6. See @noblegiraffe's annual warning thread.

The combo is fine tho I would add maths instead of geog or bio tbh to support CS. But not if he got a 6. But then I think CS with a 5 (even with a poor teacher) is not the best idea tbh.

Would he not be better taking geog, bio and eng lit or geog, bio and chem? Or history geog and biology maybe? Surely the GCSE CS 5 is to some extent down to him and the work he did?

CS degrees often ask for maths as I see you know; tbh CS and maths post 16 with a 5 and a 6 sounds like a recipe for a tough two years and lower grades. He might be better with stronger A levels even if they are in what he classes as weaker subjects. An A in Eng lit as one of three with (say) geog and biology is better than a C in CS or maths IMHO.

DDs friend is doing Art, Drama and Physics which is a mad mix of subjects.

DD did biology, geography & politics. She wasn’t sure whether she wanted to study international relations or physiotherapy so she left her options open. They actually worked really well together - geography provided a link between both biology & politics as it has the physical side dealing with ecology etc and also the human side which explores plenty of geopolitical dilemmas.

I do think that your DS needs to have a think whether he’s serious about computer science or not. If so, he really needs to be doing A level maths. Whilst it may not be a requirement at some universities, he absolutely will struggle at degree level without it.

CS is a really hard A level to get a decent grade in, look at the list of A levels by subject with %of As and Bs. CS is nearly at the bottom of that list.
He should be doing subjects he got 7s and 8s in.

I think he’s taking what he’s interested in which is always best. As for the 5 in CS, if he is keen and motivated and the teacher at GCSE was not exam focused he has the potential to do well at A level.

Yes, because he would get a contextual offer, the Russell Group university for Geography would require a BBC and similar for CS at the mid
tariff uni.

I mean I took maths politics sociology and econ, ended up doing and IR degree with quant methods and now I’m a maths tutor who teaches mainly SEN home ed kids… the path is often not really linear for most people and I think as long as he can get good grades and enjoys the subject he should go for it.

They will teach Computer Science A-level from scratch (unless all their catchment offer the GCSE, which I doubt), so he will have time to catch up. Hopefully the teaching will be better at A-level.

I think it is an interesting combination. Is he interested in GIS or spatial data science? Or this kind of thing: www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/05/24/introducing-our-prediction-model-for-americas-mid-term-elections I think that is a quite fascinating area.

Maybe kids should just study what they enjoy and try and be happy.

Caution - university courses in highly numerate subjects like Computer Science that accept students without A-Level maths will require those students to learn the relevant parts of the A-Level maths syllabus extremely quickly - maximum of a few weeks in Term 1 to catch up. It won't be quite as bad as having to crash through the whole A-Level syllabus in a few weeks because some of the syllabus will be irrelevant, but doing a Mathsy Degree without A-Level maths may not work out well for someone who doesn't love maths. When looking at courses, get firm clarification on whether their "you don't need A-Level Maths" means "We have structured the syllabus to be accessible without needing to understand any maths beyond GCSE level" or whether it means "We will expect you to get up to and beyond A-Level Maths Standard on topics relevant to this study as part of your learning on this course"

I always advise students to just pick what you’re interested in and you enjoy. I also don’t think it’s a particularly odd combination- the person at enrolment was probably just making conversation. Unless there is something very specific he wants to do at uni that needs a certain combination I would tell him to just do what he loves!

I don't think that is an odd combination at all . The geography and biology make perfect sense and are , in fact, an excellent pairing.

I do agree that he may struggle in the com sci ultimately if his maths isn't that strong.

A caution about only being in things for the money. There is a glut of computer scientists coming through. They appear highly paid because of averages because the very top computer scientist are very well off : see also economists)- but many comp sci graduates are poorly paid , working in IT support for small firms, schools , working in Currys etc. He will need to think about AI with that route too.

Yes agree with this.

I have commented before on (from memory) engineering along with lines of "if you don't like physics enough to do it for A level, but it's needed for an engineering degree, surely you won't enjoy the engineering degree?" and been told there is not much physics in the engineering degree (or whatever it was that was required by a lot of unis).

OK but I am on more stable ground with this; I know some YP who have done CS at uni and it's usually very mathsy. Taking CS A level without maths bc you don't like/are not strong in maths and then planning a degree in CS really does seem a bit like saying "I want to be a French teacher so I had better do French at uni even though I don't like it and got a 6 at GCSE."

If the motivation to take CS is a £££ career, I suggest he looks closely at other possible well paying careers and sees if there is a better route. He has some great GCSE grades; is it wise to continue with a subject he didn't do so well in?

Would a BTech in Computing be possible? Possibly less maths content?

Re the maths question - I’ve no direct experience of CS but I do unfortunately have experience of Economics without maths A level. The word clusterfuck doesn’t do it justice and I worry CS might be the same