Why Uni / no jobs ?

[ZiggleZaggle]

If the job situation for graduates is as dire as it is then why are some many teens and their parents so desperate for them to go ? Why saddle themselves with shit load of debt if most of them are only going to get shit paid jobs anyway !

Uni is higher education. You've posted in further education.

Want to move out lol

A a lot of reasons, can you really not think of any? My dc1 is starting med school, dc2 wants to be a pilot. I’ve got no worries at all about them achieving their goals (and jobs). Both needed to go to uni. Dc3 is planning to leave school the second they finish their GCSEs and has no plans whatsoever to go into any sort of future education, though I will try and encourage some sort of apprenticeship. Like pp have already mentioned, moving out and the life experience of uni can mean more to some people than the degree

Yes worthwhile goals , I can see the sense in going to Uni to achieve those aims and you have to get the grades to study . But for a lot of degrees the jobs are not out there and it’s often a case of who you know not what you know anyway . Is it really worth getting into a load of debt when there are few graduate jobs out there . Surely that debt will be a millstone round their necks as it has to be repaid and will be taken into consideration if they want to rent/ buy a home / car later down the line ?

That “debt” repayment is wholly income contingent, if you don’t earn enough it eventually gets written off, irrespective of the sum still owed. Granted that is now after 40 years.

People enjoy education and learning is possitive for some.

It is a gentle step into adulthood living.

Making friends and having new experiences, moving somewhere new.

Developing skills in self learning and focus.

What is the alternative start working from 18 and work for 50 odd years. Retirement probably won’t even exist for our kids so I figure putting off a bit of real life is not a bad thing!

Oh and broadening your horizons- meeting people from different walks of life.

I get your point but as pps have pointed out
1: some degrees do lead directly to employment
2: Uni life is a stepping stone into adult independence
3: A chance to broaden horizons, an education in life.

Having said that my ds (about to start year 13) will apply for Uni and also degree apprenticeships.

My son resolutely decided university was not for him. That it was a big debt and that he was ready for work and there were no graduate jobs. I supported this fully.

Anyway the reality has been that he hasnt found one good quality job. He actually has a portofolio of jobs. Some that pay well but he is already maximum they will pay and others are boring and low paid and he doesnt want to do those long term. People in his team have done them a long while and very few 'work there way up" and the middle layers dont pay much more anyway and the higher layers have degrees. There are opportunities in construction in particular for young people to make there way, but otherwise not having a degree doesnt really make the job market easier either.

He wants a chance at doing some work that does advertise that a degree is needed. He knows its a gamble. He might get the degree and still do those exact jobs he does now. Or he might get a chance to progress in those jobs more quickly, or even get a graduate job within his field within 5 years of his degree that he likes. He intends to keep the well paid jobs through his degree.

He thinks the learning will be interesting. He wants more academic knowledge and missed learning stuff that wasnt related to earning whilst he's been out of education.

He also felt that the debt, whilst real, was worth it. In that if he was stuck in a low paid job the payment remain low but at least he had 3 interesting years, if he gets a good job they pay off quickly. They are a bit of a bind for mid range earners as they payments are enough to notice but last 40 years, but he is realistic about that being the most likely outcome.

He also looked at emigrating and found lots of countries want graduates in thier points system.

Uni is also quite fun! It's also very reasonable when you compare it to adult learning where a one day course can cost you £2k.

Apprenticeships are being lawded but they are often very miserable for the 18 year olds doing them. My DH works with apprentices in his team and all they do is sit on teams calls in their one bed flat while working with teams of middle aged people who all have families. If they don't have a really good social support network outside of work it's not a nice experience.

The same applies to some poor sods on graduate schemes too, i.e. sat in their tiny flat during online meetings with much older people they've never met and have nothing in common with, usually not having a clue what's being discussed. It's definitely not just an "apprentice" thing.

At least you might have some solid friendship groups from uni by then though so not entirely reliant on the work party scene (lack of).

To an extent, but not so much if your graduate job isn't in the same city as your university. Say, go to Uni in Lancaster, and your graduate job is in Norwich, you're basically back to "on line" friendships with your old Uni cohort unless some of them have done the same journey to find work.

Yes it's demoralising really. Maybe in ten years we will all be mining coal for our AI overlord so we can have a chat while we do that?

It mostly comes down to habit and fear—for years we were told a degree was the only path to a decent job, so parents still view it as the default "safe" option.Do you think degree apprenticeships will eventually replace the traditional uni route, or is the "uni experience" just too deeply ingrained?

It seems some dc really don’t understand how student loans work and have not familiarized themselves on how and when they are repaid. Many are never repaid.

DC go because they don’t know what they want for a job. Many don’t want the daily grind at 18. Plenty need degrees for career aspirations. Thousands are doing practical degrees that were never degrees 30 years ago but now they are because the colleges of HE are now universities. Vast numbers of vocational courses are now degrees but probably don’t need to be but dc are forced to do them. Dc grow up, negotiate a life away from home and have time to build a cv but degree quality and university do matter. Some degrees like performing arts ones are not great for employment prospects.

I also think there's a lot of "snob" value about parents wanting their kids to go to Uni, i.e. to boast "first in the family" etc. And by the same token, they don't want their little darlings to come home from work with dirty hands/clothes in the way that, say, a joiner, builder or plumber will come home.

But also, we've now had a few decades where you "Need" a degree to get jobs that previously didn't i.e. nursing, police, teachers, social workers, etc. etc., so there's a "fear factor" among parents that options are limited without a degree.

Finally, decent apprenticeship schemes are still too few and far between. Smaller firms and one man bands simply don't bother with them due to the cost, hassle, etc. and plenty of places (especially out in the regions) simply don't have big employers, so no firms offering apprenticeships. It's OK if you live somewhere near a big BNFL or BAE site or in a city with lots of offices, but in lots of places, there's neither, so moving away to Uni is the only viable option for a decent education.

Nail on the head. Especially how all the courses that used to be offered by colleges and Polys have been turned into degrees, with Polys converted into Unis and Colleges converted into 16-18 training hubs. A massive vacuum left behind for adults wanting a career change or anyone wanting to learn vocational/trades/manual/technical subjects.

@Badbadbunny There has been a huge problem caused by the old colleges of HE and teacher training colleges becoming unis. They barely offered degrees until 1992 and when they did they were not awarded by them. They were far more geared towards vocational training.

Colleges of FE now offer the relatively low level courses and many are for trades and linked to apprenticeships. The huge gap is the middle ground below degree level, and the polys used to offer these - HND. Now they are all degrees because they are universities. I’d like to see far more HE courses, not degrees, at the non ex poly unis. So places like Bucks New, Northampton, St Mary’s Twickenham and similar should have a much wider range of courses below degree level. I think the polys probably have to stay as unis but we definitely have too many of them.

lifting the cap on uni places in 2013/14 also helped create this problem. Courses were invented and expanded to meet the demand and too many were not good enough.

The graduate job market is dire, the unskilled 18 yo job market is arguably worse.

In a lot of other countries it’s more common to stay home while studying so less debt from living expenses and if all your school friends are doing the same thing then they are still around. I don’t know how this works on these countries if there isn’t a good place to study within communing distance though as it can’t be an option for everyone ie rural area/no uni/no transport/crap local uni/ok local uni but particular course is crap.

Broadening horizons, meeting different types of people, stepping stone to adulthood, being degree educated, living somewhere new, all sorts of experiences. We come from a very small town and look at the debt as a graduate tax.

There’s few jobs fullstop never mind graduate jobs. Maybe for some the choice is unemployment or university.

@SulkingInTheCatio Yes that’s definitely part of the issue. Moving the issue three or four years into the future looks attractive. Plus dc have a better idea of what they want.

@BigMoandtheEStreet11 It’s an issue! The French have a heirarchy of universities and dc do leave home for the grande Ecoles. It’s less of an issue if you maintain a variety of HE too. We haven’t but Germany does. You cannot compare really. Here, plenty don’t live anywhere near a good university. Only a low rated one. What then?