Can you take A-levels with 4s or 5s at GCSE?

[HarveyLouis]

Is it possible,, or advisable, to take A-Level Geography or A-Level 3D design if you get a 4 or 5 in the relevant subject at GCSE? DD currently in year 10 and is looking at 6th form options. She is on course for 3s to 5s at GCSE and has an EHCP for dyslexia and ADHD. She may want to take a Business BTEC but not sure of other choices. Geography is her strongest GCSE subject but there don't seem to be any vocational options in Geography. We were suggesting Travel and Tourism to her as a possibility but her favourite 6th form doesn't offer it. She needs to apply to as many colleges as possible and her EHCP will be sent to them. I have no idea what happens at this stage really, do we pick a preference or does she wait until results day to make her final choice? To add, we don't think she is on course for uni, potentially an apprenticeship at 18. Getting Cs in A-levels would be an achievement for her.

I would say it’s not a great idea and the school would advise against it. Her English might not be good enough either. She needs to look for something vocational so what about another college? Or school for BTec. I agree about T and T. Any schools offering it?

My son has just finished his A levels, one of which was Geography. He got a 7 at GCSE which was his highest grade, other grades were 5s and 6s. It’s very writing heavy, he isn’t dyslexic but struggles with motivation and he found it hard - there is a lot of content. His sister is dyslexic and there is no way she could manage it. I would maybe pursue the travel & tourism option at another college, especially as she’s not keen on going on to university.

I disagree it’s a bad idea. I went to a bad high school and achieved a mixed bag of results..cs, bs and D’s
went to college, great teaching and I got AAB at Alevels and went onto get a 2:1 degree.

That’s great but your exam results were the result of going to a bad school rather than a neurodivergence such as dyslexia & adhd - both of these impact academic achievement regardless of the school/college.

If she gets a 5 at gcse she absolutely has the potential to get a C at A Level. Just make sure you select a 6th form who have a good track record for supporting students with SEND and who will make adjustments from the start - things like ET, digital copies of notes etc.

It's not impossible but it would be likely that the best she can hope for is a C, but more likely a D, at A-level in a subject where the GCSE grade was 5 - unless the 5 isn't a fair reflection of her abilities and she might have been on track for a 6 or 7 with better teaching/support. If GCSE grade was 4 then A-Level grade will be more likely E, or D at a push. All the sixth forms know this which is why they usually insist on 6 as minimum GCSE grade - their performance stats will be adversely affected if they knowingly admit someone who has very little chance of a B grade or better and they have every right to refuse.

If she really loves geography and you can't find a college that will accept her for it, you could pay for 1:1 tutorials and arrange for her to sit the exams as a private candidate so that it doesn't affect any college statistics, and she coukd do that alongside one ot two BTech courses.

I think A' levels with a 5 in the subject would be challenging and I'm not sure if a college would be offer three As with 4/5 in the subjects for that reason. However, she's only Yr10 so this isn't a foregone conclusion. What does she want to do? There are some students who get very average GCSE results but do well enough at A level due to being motivated to work hard, either by interest in the subject or desire to progress to a pathway that demands high results. Is this an option? Is she in a position to work really hard on English, maths and the GCSEs she wants to take for A level or is this unrealistic?

If not, something more vocational might be better suited. Whilst there is nothing wrong with Cs at A level, might she find pedalling that hard to keep up a bit soul destroying?

Motivation and aptitude are both relevant: she'll do best at something she's interested in that feels achievable. What does she like to do generally? What kind of jobs is she interested in? Ideally you would find a course of study she will be successful in, enjoy and will prepare her in broad terms for the sorts of jobs she would like. This might not be available at the college of her choice and might need a bit of shopping around.

4 or 5 grades to a C is a stretch at A level. If English comes out at a 4, it’s going to be very hard. What does the college offer in terms of BTec? This is a far more sensible idea.

Im a teacher, I wouldn’t recommend it, not because I think she’ll get low grades but because to get the grades below she will have to slog her guts out and it makes for a miserable two years.
Standard Subjects
Most A-Level subjects (e.g., History, Biology, Geography, English) generally expect the following progression:
Grade 8/9 → Grade A or A*
Grade 7 → Grade B
Grade 6 → Grade C
Grade 5 → Grade D
Grade 4 → Grade E
Maths and Physics
Maths and Physics are harder at A-Level. The jump in difficulty means your grades usually drop by about two steps compared to GCSE:
Grade 8/9 → Grade B or C
Grade 7 → Grade C or D
Grade 6 → Grade D or E 1, 2, 3]

I teach Geography a-level and I wouldn’t advise it with 3-5s at GCSE. Our students achieving Cs have often achieved 5-7s at GCSE. There is a huge amount of content to learn and the exams are extremely time pressured. Depending on the exam board, each exam includes 2-3 essays and a number of shorter written responses. There is a coursework element (NEA) which is worth 20% of the a-level. This could be a bonus. Our weaker students tend to boost marks with this, but only if they put in the effort over the summer holidays.
Check the course content and see if she would enjoy the modules - there is some flexibility over what we teach so for example if she really enjoys ‘Coasts’ and the college teaches ‘Hot Deserts’ instead, she may be less motivated.
Has she considered a triple BTEC in Business, which would be equivalent to 3 a-levels?

If someone gets 4-5s because of temporary illness or cba then a levels can work.

if that’s genuinely what they are capable of then a levels are a very bad idea

We have looked at 3 colleges but none of them offer BTECs that are equivalent to 3 A-levels, they seem to say one 1 A-Level equivalent. That is why we can't seem to find anywhere that suitable as she needs 3 choices. Business BTEC and what else? She doesn't want sport, applied science, health and social care or criminology BTECs. This is so hard. There are.so many more A-Level options. No idea what she wants to do in the future. Choosing something like travel and tourism would really feel like choosing something to make up the number of options. There don't seem to be T-levels on offer near us.

Which part of geography do they enjoy and do better at? At level 3 there may be more specific options like Sociology but bear in mind any statistical elements requires decent maths knowledge. Grade 5 pass is borderline for passing A levels easily.

I think a more vocational option might be better. What aspect of geography do they like? Its quite a broad topic. There isnt an obvious vocational geography qualification but there might be one that taps into some bits of the syllabus.

I was thinking agriculture/land management or applied science btechs or an apprentiship in digital mapping..

I thought we are constantly told that 4/5 is the equivalent of a C in the old grading system? If so that would have always been fine for a levels?

However I am starting to strongly suspect that 4/5 are more like a D, 6 is more like an old C, a 7 an old B , and 8 an old A and a 9 an old A*

Also @HarveyLouis my DSD really struggled at GCSE and we were so proud with her grades at mainly 4/5. She went to college and did a T level and all of a sudden found her confidence and did so much better and got a distinction and is now looking at universities. I think with dyslexia school can be such a confidence destroyer

Sorry just seen that T levels don't seem to be an option

Presumably some of the Maths and Physics a level lot still get As, It's just less of a "guaranteed" progression?

She likes the physical aspect of Geography- rocks, coasts, rivers

DD got mostly 5s. She really struggled with focus and motivation during her GCSEs so I was very reluctant for her to do A levels. She was determined to though so did and it was a terrible decision - she found the independent study impossible, her mental health nosedived and she ended up very unhappy, very stressed and with 3 pretty rubbish A levels. If there's anything else your DD can do, I'd keep looking for it, I wish DD hadn't bothered, it's taken 2 years for her to (mostly) get over it.

My child is dyslexic too. We discounted A levels as the weighty exams at the end of two years just didn’t suit the way they learn. They went to the local college and have just finished a BTEC in construction and built environment, equivalent to three ALevels. At school they enjoyed DT and science.
They also completed an Extended project (Welsh Bacc.), which has given them some good, transferrable skills.
They excelled in this environment and the way the BTEC is taught and examined really suited them. Would your daughter consider looking at other BTECs-construction doesn’t mean just bricklayer, electrician etc. Many in my child’s course are looking for (or have) apprenticeships in project management, design, building management, surveying.
or, as she enjoys geography, what about agriculture? Land management, conservation, etc

A level Geography teacher here. I wouldn’t advise it. We ask for at least a 6 in Geography and 5s in English language and maths. It is a massive subject, with a huge reliance on good quality literacy and numeracy skills. There is so much content for the exams, then coursework in top. She would be better off with BTECs that would allow her to access higher UCAS points.

I wish there were more BTECs and modular courses in a wider range of subjects. She has been advised to study what she is passionate about but if that is the environment and nature etc then there are no options that we can find. I think she will have to settle for something she doesn't really want to do.

I have looked again at vocational options at the 3 colleges near us. One is a technical college and does things like bricklaying, carpentry and Business. The other 2 are sixth for colleges with mainly A-levels and a smaller selections of BTECs. Applied Science seems to be a continuation of the 3 sciences at GCSE with a practical focus but not related to the environment. I can't see T-levels or land management type courses.

I will have to steer her away from Geography A-Level I think.

At my school we say grade 6 minimum, but sixth forms will bend those rules to get bums on seats. Post 16 students are the highest value when it comes to pay per head.
That said, would it be best for your DD when she’s unlikely to get a decent A Level out of it?

We were wondering if 1 A-level alongside a BTEC would be the answer. But I don't think so as she would probably enjoy the Geography A-Level but not get a good grade at the end as exams are not her strong point.

I am going to look at colleges further afield, if we can find a better course combination we will have to work out the travel later and hope they can meet the needs of the EHCP.