Choosing a fourth A level alongside German, Biology and Maths

[Stowickthevast]

DD has just finished GCSEs and needs to decide on her A levels.

She is definitely doing German, Biology and Maths but her school does 4, and takes an AS in 1 at the end of Y12. She'd like to do an essay subject but it's unsure which to choose from History, RE or possibly English Lit. She's not taken RE for GCSE, but thinks aspects of the course sounds interesting - the ethics bit more than the religion bit. History and English she's predicted 8s in, seemed quite into History when she was revising it but is worried the A level course doesn't sound as interesting. She's always been good at English but didn't have a great GCSE teacher which put her off.

Any advice? Is RE considered "lighter" than the others? She's not at all sure what she wants to do later or what she will drop. Possibly Modern languages.

My youngest two are in y12. What has become apparent among some of their peers is the lack of 2 sciences (as doing a science based degree is often reliant on this). Maths is often considered a science but dependent on course. So make sure there not closing doors. I have one doing maths got an 8 for gcse and is finding it hard predicted a b (which will be hard won). One doing biology is enjoying it got an 8 at gcse an on track for a star.
What about timetabling dt2 wanted to do English but it clashed with one of the sciences (which were more important for a science degree). Opted for politics in the end as an essay based subject and loves it.
Dt1 is doing history and really enjoys it (however not all of it) says that some of the topics are hard going because they are less interesting to them but overall glad they took it. Another issue is that the y13 topic has been changed because the new teacher that starts in September prefers a different topic so it seems that topics can change.
Also ask school what combinations are good together one of mine swapped to do biology and chemistry because there was more of an overlap than chemistry and physics (for their exam board). It also means theres lots of other dc doing similar combinations which helps with studying and friendship formation if they don't know many people.
Mine were encouraged to go on a uni website (forget which one) and put different combinations of alevels in and see what degrees are recommended it helped dc realise which would help keep options open and which would not.

What do they want to do after A levels? If they want to study STEM then take another science. If not, then it's more open.

Maths is pretty much always viewed as a science IME. Ds does a science degree and did maths and bio A levels and everywhere was fine with maths. Which degrees at which unis don’t class it as a science @Podcastonsounds ?

My thoughts @Stowickthevast are why take the AS? The main value it might add is UCAS points, but they only apply to certain unis and with three full A levels points from an AS are less likely to be needed.

It just seems like extra work for little return. If she is undecided then starting four may help, for sure. But otherwise I can’t see the point. It doesn’t sound as tho she is very committed to any of those subjects. I would worry about taking away from her other choices which all need a good commitment. Yay for the German tho

How about economics - mostly "essay" based but very highly regarded and shouldn't be too much of a strain for someone doing Maths A level as her Maths knowledge will make the numbers/graphs side of it pretty easy.

My post wasn’t very helpful was it @Stowickthevast in terms of which subject.

If she has to take a fourth (and I would push to drop at Christmas) then all those options are fine, none is lighter. Does she prefer the texts for Eng lit or the topics for history?

My first thought was geography or politics as they'd go nicely with her others career wise.

That's an unusual combination! (It's also the combination of A Levels I started with some 35 years ago, though I ended up switching out the Biology for French and doing an MFL degree.)
For just about anything that doesn't require a specific science (e.g. Chemistry for Biochemistry), Maths and Biology will both count as sciences, so I don't think that is necessarily a concern.
What does she want to do? If she has no idea at this point I'd just go for whichever of the others she likes the best - maybe give English a go if she likes literature and hasn't liked her teachers until this point??
I'd also question the taking-four (though obviously if it's the school's policy you may not have much choice). Everyone I know who has taken four, with the exception of Further Maths as a fourth, has ended up dropping one to concentrate on three. You only need three!

Before reading your thread, I wondered about Psychology or Sociology. That sort of fits with the RE suggestion.

But any of those combinations sound reasonable. If she reads the syllabus, what appeals most?

My son likes the ethics part of RE and is planning on philosophy a level, alongside others, particularly to hone the essay writing skills.

Agree with others that they are all good solid options, but surely it matters more what she’s thinking about doing next?

Thanks for all the advice. It's the school's policy to do the AS, everyone does it apart from the FM people, so it's not an option to drop it.

The school doesn't offer sociology or psychology which I agree could suit her, particularly psychology. She has applied to do that at a couple of other 6th forms but they don't offer German, which is her strongest subject so she'll probably end up staying where she is. The German offering at her school is great, all native teachers and includes 2 weeks work experience in Germany.

She's not keen on chemistry, although is predicted 9s in all sciences. In terms of what she wants to do after, she's toyed with architecture but I think is leaning towards German & either a second language or philosophy/history. She doesn't want to go back to the heavy coursework of art though.

She has considered economics and politics but doesn't have much interest in them and thinks they both look a bit boring. I guess if she ends up just doing one for a year, it won't really matter.

She might end up changing her mind about which to drop though!

I understand that English Lit A level has become more thematic, which might be interesting. If your dd still likes reading for pleasure, for example.

DS1 did RS at GCSE because he'd heard it was "easy" - I don't think he found it at all easy but he seems to have found it interesting, because he chose Philosophy as his 4th a level. He got a 7 and his grade might have been lower if it hadn't been for near perfect marks on an exam paper on Islam. We're not religious at all but both DP and I are from culturally Christian ancestry - and I think we probably had more religious education one way and another than DS did before choosing it at GCSE. APS students also normally do a 4th A level for a year but as DS1 was doing Maths and FM, he carried on - and Philosophy was definitely his hardest subject, the only one where he was predicted an A rather than A* (and yes, predictions were spot on on this).

I'd look at what the title of the A level course for RE is. Is it just Religious Education? Some courses/syllabuses have an overlap with Philosophy

The RE they do does seem to have quite a bit of philosophy but it's called Religious Studies. The papers are Philosophy of Religion, Religious Ethics and Developments in Christian thought. We're not religious either, DD has barely been to a church service.

History is the Stuarts, Russia and Ireland. I did Stuart's for History A level and found it quite dry.

I really like their English syllabus which has got some great books on it- White Teeth, Wide Sargasso Sea, Mn books fave NLMG, The Little Stranger and Purple Hibiscus, along with Shakespeare, Milton, Jane Eyre and a couple of others.

I do agree that the 4th may not end up being the 4th. I'm not even sure how German will go when she's doing dense German lit instead of language. And Maths could well be borderline 7/8, so have told her she should choose something else if she doesn't get her 8.

@Stowickthevast for AS Eng lit tho she will only study a few texts (maybe four or five). Can you find out which ones the school does and she could read them and see if they appeal?

On the German btw – people are often concerned about the literature element but it is literally one book (and one film). The exam on the book and the film is worth 80 marks out of 400 total for the A level, and half of those marks are for the language, as in how well you write the essay in German. So 20 marks for the actual analysis of the German book (and the same for the film). So that element is only worth 1/20 of the total marks. Can you (or she) find out which film and which book if that's a concern? The most likely book is Der Vorleser or Der Besuch der Alten Dame which I love. Most likely film is Goodbye Lenin! or Das Leben der Anderen, again, both great. Well worth watching both of them.

(The rest of the A level btw in case you were wondering is made up of a topic-based reading and listening exam which is worth 200 marks and a topic/project based speaking exam which is worth 120 marks. So language is still the main focus.)

From your later posts her choice of maths and bio is unusual if her intention is a degree in MFL and history or phi. Does she not want in that case to take history A level? You can take a degree in history without the A level in lots of places (Leeds for instance) but having it would open more doors. I mean maths and bio are great A levels which also open doors, but it desn't sound as tho they are doors she wants to go through (sorry for the laboured metaphor).

Thanks Clary, that's really good to know. Yes it's Goodbye Lenin and Der Besuch Der Alten Dame.
She likes the idea of doing a second language at uni. In Y8 they had to choose a second language, and she chose Latin over French which she now regrets. Her school also don't offer Spanish so I think the MFL courses that allow you to do German and another language from scratch are quite appealing.

She wants to do Maths and Bio purely because they're subjects that she enjoys and likes revising for.

Ahh two MFL is great. Yes more and more unis are now accepting of even French (formerly so mainstream) as an ab initio MFL. When I went to uni you could really only take Russian and Italian from scratch but that was when dinosaurs roamed the earth so things have changed.

Great choices of film and book then. But yes, the language is still key. I hope she is doing some work over the summer. If none has been set by school I suggest reading the book (not too difficult a text) and watching the film - and any other films on the list) as a start. And going over the GCSE vocab and verb work to make sure all is secure there.

History and English Lit would both be good prep for a languages degree.