Apprenticeship (Level 7 but no degree) or University?

[frowner]

Just wondering if anyone could share their knowledge or experiences please. My daughter has been offered a level 7 solicitor apprenticeship via Damar training (2 year level 3 paralegal then 3 year solicitor including SQE but no degree). She has also been offered a place on an LLB course at Warwick, any advice on the best route? Much appreciated

@frownerI know this is a hard decision and they are so young…you can defer Uni for 1 year…we did, that way she can knows she always has options at a later date.

@BrightHedgehog If paying £400 a month, they probably earn £85,000 though, so might well think the degree opened a very decent door. Plus they will pay less interest because they will pay it off relatively quickly.

I think some apprenticeships are great but when dc do a law degree they do have a broader education. However a job is very valuable so I’d probably take it.

Hi yes but my point is my kids are also on £85k but no loans to pay back. Re broader education - is it really?? 6 or 7 hours a week for half the year? There are other ways to get educated that don’t saddle you with debt for 30 years

@BrightHedgehog Do you really think that’s all students do? They just sit around for the rest of the time? No reach then? No reading? No essay prep? No labs? No societies or sports or music? The DD could do a law degree and no decent uni offers a law degree where a student only does 7 hours a week! As if! Also the law student gets a bigger chance at top jobs. The apprentice might be at a top company but their grad intake is much much bigger. These jobs are difficult to get of course but the apprentice in a niche local solicitors won’t get them.

@MeetMeOnTheCorner & @BrightHedgehog Indeed many top universities that offer law will have 7-8 hrs a week contact time. Yes the student needs to do double that of private study. But let’s face it a law conversion takes a year to cover the qualifying aspects of law so of course a 3 year degree is filled out with more diverse areas of ‘law study’ thus giving the student different areas of law to explore other than just the fundamentals. Whether a student wants that exploration of wider areas or wants to focus on the fundamentals and acquire more work experience is a very personal choice. Both routes are great but different. One is not better than the other.

As a solicitor….definitely the apprenticeship route!

What happens if she changes her mind and doesn’t want to be a solicitor? Pretty much even basic level jobs nowadays seem to ask for degrees, could she be in the position of having a level 7 qualification but because it’s not called a degree, she would struggle to get onto another path?

Apprenticeship all day long as they have direct industry experience v uni learner with very limited exposure to the real world until completed

@toddlertoenail That never used to matter for law, snd still doesn’t in some areas of law where your brain is valued more and the pay is very good. A narrow field of law has its drawbacks for the future. But - it’s a job!

She’ll have no problem securing a job as a qualified lawyer with 6 years work experience - heaps & heaps of transferable skills if she fancied a change.

I work in a law firm - solicitor apprenticeships are hard to get so she’s done really well - she won’t fail SQE. I’d take the apprenticeship without hesitation

Transferable skills, yes, but will it be a problem if she doesn't have a degree?

Of course not, the SQE is a masters level post grad qualification that’s higher than a degree. It’s the same with accountancy apprenticeships; they don’t get a degree per se but the post grad qualification of ACA. The only issue here is that it’s the SQE, which means she couldn’t opt to be a barrister. A lot of firms / companies etc will be very happy to employ her even if it’s not directly as a solicitor. She’ll have a strong skill set well beyond a newly qualified grad.

The above is relating to her wanting to switch career paths.

That's interesting I wasn't aware that this was an option, we will look into this more thank you.

Some differing perspectives, really appreciate you all sharing your views. The niche local firm and the prospect of top jobs going to university graduates if true is a definite concern. @Yuja @ninetofiveeveryday and @toddlertoenail that sounds like a very firm yes to the apprentiship route, interestly all very contrasting views to @MeetMeOnTheCorner

@frowner To be fair, I said it was a narrow field of law - but it’s a job. By that I meant it’s valuable. But - it’s not a field of law in the day job that means an automatic route to big bucks. The big city firms are still taking the grads. However if she isn’t interested in a city job, take what’s on offer but she won’t have had seats in various departments.

Hello @frowner,
my daughter is in the middle of doing a property law apprenticeship and is really enjoying it. She’s working full time and has found the exams okay as she’s doing the work so has gained loads of experience. She has already been head hunted from other firms and has built up a regular client basis. She’s working full time and has just completed her level 4 diploma in conveyancing law and practice and is now doing her level 6. Wishing your daughter all the best in which ever route she decides to take. 😊

Thank you for sharing your daughters experience @DaydreamerBetty , it sounds like she is doing amazing, especially to be head hunted before completing her training. Will she be completing the SQE at the same firm? Thank you also for sharing your thoughts, I am genuinely interested in your perspective as you sound very knowledgeable in this area of graduate opportunities @MeetMeOnTheCorner

@frowner no she won’t be completing the SQE. She is completing her level 6 CLC conveyancing which entails 3 exams. Once this is completed she will apply for her license to practice and will be qualified licensed conveyancer/property lawyer- not a solicitor.

Would like to add she works for a small firm and is already a fee earner and makes good money, also gets target related bonuses. Has no debt which she would have accumulated going to university so feels she has made the right choice.

@frowner DD is a barrister and did have a loan. Paid it off by 30. Many of her friends work for London city law firms and are graduates. I know your dd doesn’t want to be a barrister, but city lawyers earn multiples of a conveyancer. So any dc doing well as a conveyancer isn't making what a top young lawyer would or a land law barrister. Not that dd does land law. She does divorce but didn’t really go down that route until she was mid 20s. She was able to sample other areas of family law first and see what suited. She’s now at a band 1 Chambers for matrimonial divorce.

The SQE is far better than conveyancing and I’m never sure what “good money” is when posters say that. I know what DD bills and it’s not comparable to a conveyancers salary. I do believe a job is very valuable though but networking and moving up need dedication and drive to succeed. Jobs are hard to come by with too many qualifying as solicitors but without jobs. Your dd just needs to be sure she’s going into the right area of law at 18 as she won’t get true experience of anything else.