T level v BTEC. Worried DC is making the wrong choice.

[paramamasunlight]

In the process of choosing 6th forms. DC is not particularly academic. Predicted 6-4s in GCSE. They are doing enterprise (business) BTec now and are predicted starred distinction. It’s their strongest because of both enjoying the subject and the way the course is planned / assessed. Their English and maths teachers have said they could get 7s in those subjects too but are not strong at exams.

They don’t want to do A levels, so instead have been looking at BTECS, most likely in business. I think it’s a great choice. We’re in London so we have the luxury of having lots of choices of 6th forms / colleges too.

A lot of their friends (though not all) are likely to go to one particular very popular 6th form. It’s huge, it’s not local (though easy to commute to). It’s a very good school, good facilities etc. So my DC also has that as their first choir right now.

But, if they do go there, they’d need to do a T Level (business and administration) rather than a BTEC as they don’t do the extended diploma there. DC said that’s fine, but I don’t think they’ve really considered the difference and what’s expected for a T Level. My understanding is it has the work experience element, which is great. But the academic side is more akin to A levels, with more meaty exams rather than continuous assessment and more but shorter exams over the two years.

My concern is that the T Level doesn’t play to their strengths. Watching them revise for their GSCEs has been quite painful, to be frank!

Can anyone advise if I’m being concerned over nothing or if I should try to steer them in the other direction? They’ve got great alternative options, but the draw of going where friends go is strong!

I thought that the a level equivalent BTECs were being replaced by t levels, though maybe just in the subject area mine did?

A merit in t level is 120 UCAS points and I think comparable to BTEC grades.
The unis that accept T Levels are the same as the ones that take BTEC I think…ie the ex-polytechnics.
2nd DC has uni offers too so it’s defo not a barrier.

Disagree you need a distinction for uni entry, my two have been offered with a merit (120 points), the distinction is equal to 144 points.

Yes - where I work we’re fine with BTECs (at high grades) but T Levels are only considered for a small number of courses and it is very dependent on the core and occupation specialism. We ask students on T Levels to contact us in advance to discuss because we accept so little in terms of T Levels we don’t want anyone to waste a UCAS choice. Some programmes are just a flat no to T Levels, but would be fine with BTECs. We are RG, but bottom end of the tariff for RG to give an idea

I’m not saying you can’t get in with less, any more than you can get into time courses at some unis with really low A level grades, but T levels are accepted for
fewer courses at fewer uni to begin with and many of those are asking for top end marks from a T levels.

@SeaDragon17
sorry, misunderstood what you meant.

i think they will have to become more accepted if they are phasing out the BTECs though (surely?).

For my two they have been a positive experience, particularly the placement element. They did do the leg work re getting their placements although the college gave some support; but it’s definitely not a case of a placement will be found for you.

I don’t know. I think they are probably lining up for an overhaul as industry seems to really dislike them in many subjects. They just aren’t equipping the takers with the depth of practical skills of a BTEC.

It’s so frustrating they are pushing BTEC to 19+ when it’s a preferred course for so many.

I think @BamberGirl and I defer to your direct experience but plenty of unis take Btecs (not Oxford, Imperial or other very popular and thus picky unis), tho admittedly sometimes in combo with A levels; but that includes RG unis as well. I do think some may be a bit more wary of T levels tho.

Just a random quick bit of research (based on the OPP's DC's subject):

• Uni of Birmingham will accept a Btec in business at DDD for its BSc business management with business analytics
• Bristol Uni will accept DD in any level 3 extended Btec diploma for its BSc in business and management.

So it's definitely not the case that Btecs are only accepted by post-1992 unis. I agree that it’s a commonly held view and yes, you do need to check specific courses at specific unis as some only want A levels.

FWIW neither of those courses mentioned T levels as such tho obviously that was just a quick snapshot. Worth looking into it tho @paramamasunlight if your DC may want to go to uni.

If it helps the mid league uni I work at makes no distinction between any Lvl 3 qualification. It’s all about UCAS points. Don’t care if it’s A level, T level, btec, access course.

My eldest is doing the t level business administration and is really enjoying it. The placement day once a week was a big draw for me (and him) as it will hopefully help with employability. He doesn't want to go to uni, but there definitely were unis accepting it when we looked. He got 5s in gcse with no effort and is coasting his way through the t level also with no effort. Imagine he will pass but nothing more.

It is in no way comparable to a levels in my mind!

The university issue is interesting. I’ve done a bit of Googling and it looks like T levels are less widely accepted than BTECS. For some places you need additional quals, such as an A level, to be accepted. That’s really interesting, especially as T levels seem to be sold as more academic than BTECs. At the moment my DC does not want to go to uni, but that may change. They have no clue what to do next so I certainly don’t want them to restrict their options without realising they are doing this.
And I know some top unis don’t accept BTECs, but that number seems very small and not within what my DC could aspire to anyway.

I do wonder if it is a factor of the newness of T levels and unis being unsure as to what their value is?

IIRC some years ago when DD was looking (so 2017-8) a lot of the unis we looked at were wary of Btecs – now that may be bc of the courses we were looking at (Eng lit for example which obvs is not offered as a Btec) but it seems to me (not researched in detail, just from some checking for friends and colleagues) that ,a wider range of higher ranked unis are now happy with Btecs or as you say, Btec + A level combo. So it may be that by the time your DC is there things will have changed. I do think it's worth exploring tho. They could contact uni admissions depts who will be happy to help and advise.

When we spoke to college admissions, they said btec is coursework, t level is placement, project and exams. And that btecs are set up to allow for retakes in English or maths, which their t level course isn't.

My son is more of a very last minute burst of effort kid and regular coursework submissions wouldn't have been for him. He's got an exam conditions project to do in May and 2 exams in June.

Reading all about the graduate market, I'm pleased he will have done a 2 year one day a week term time placement to go on his CV.

I think universities are always a bit behind qualifications. They will probably accept T-levels in time, once they become more familiar with it.

I don't understand why they didn't just add work placements to BTEC extended diplomas (I think many already had this as an optional unit anyway / for health and social and early years education I think placements were already compulsory). I don't understand what else T-levels offer that BTECs don't / didn't. This is such an unnecessary mess!

Most BTECs already had project units as well (engineering, music for sure, I think even for sport and health you can do a research project). Though maybe the T-level project is larger?

It may have been my post that you read previously about my son dropping A Levels and picking up a T Level. Ultimately he's decided to go for a BTEC - for several reasons really but the big one was the content of the T Level. He was interested in doing animal management but once you look into it,there's a HUGE amount of dry, business stuff. He has ADHD and needs a subject he find interesting otherwise he just can't engage in it. I found this info here so you might want to take a look for your subject here too:

https://www.cityandguilds.com/qualifications-and-apprenticeships/land-based-services/agriculture/8717-t-level-agriculture-environmental-and-animal-care#tab=documents

I've also read a LOT of articles about T levels,drop out rates, difficulties with work experience and to be honest,I think it's disgraceful that the Government are getting rid of Btechs,a well established qualification,to replace them with a qualification that hasn't had enough time to assess if they're working. As another person up thread said before,if you can grab a Btech this year, I'd do it with both hands!

https://feweek.co.uk/teaching-hours-cut-not-enough-to-revive-t-levels/

https://feweek.co.uk/ministers-shrink-t-levels-to-boost-take-up-and-manageability/

https://www.fenews.co.uk/exclusive/for-v-levels-to-succeed-they-must-learn-the-lessons-of-the-roll-out-of-t-levels/

@paramamasunlight To be honest, he might not know exactly what he wants to do but this qualification won’t set him up for a choice of careers will it!? It’s business. So he will have to go with the flow on that and make the most of business placements. It’s obviously a job sector that’s impacted by AI so getting work experience narrows down where there IS work. Unfortunately choice is a bit of a luxury these days.

I manage t levels at work. I think it’s great, so far some of them have gone onto apprenticeships for their next level at my employer and during their time at work they really mature and are (generally!) great employees by the time they’ve finished. They are experienced in the work place, know how to behave, have the skills we are looking for. We adapt the placement to suit the individual.

My one word of caution if that it’s a leaning curve for employers too! My third batch of t -level students are getting a much better placement than the first ones!

@farmfreshmilk That sounds great - can I ask in which field you work? (Healthcare?)

What about just applying for apprenticeships? Does he have a PT job now?

Nope, I’m in finance.

re the apprenticeships, or have gone on to level 5 or 6 apprenticeships where they have with us, which we wouldn’t recruit to with 16 year olds…

It’s Animal Management that my daughter is dropping the T level in after year one for exactly this reason. D* student last year for L2 but detesting the T Level core business content and (also ND) can’t engage in what is largely irrelevant content at this kind of level and in the study area.