How involved are you in your DC choices and applications

[outofofficeagain]

I care very much about DS’s future obviously (currently in Y12).

He is hard working with good grades, Oxbridge potential but not sure. Wants to apply for a couple of apprenticeships too.

I have quite a hands off approach. He’s the one who has to live it so I’ve left it up to him to research courses etc. I’ve said I’ll take him to any open days he wants to go to but also suggested he does some on his own. We talk about it when he brings it up and I’ve gently suggested he chats to his teachers.

A lot of my friends seem to be ‘on it’. Multiple open days done already, seem to know the ins and outs of every course etc. Have folders, know every application process.

I’m now worried I am letting him down by not being more involved, and naive about how much parents push things along.

Did you leave your DC to it?

I helped with research, encouraged open days (summer in Y12 if possible - Y13 is incredibly pressured). If Oxbridge is a possibility, application needs to be submitted early October, schools will want it earlier to add the reference etc. I attended open days and offer days, because they wanted me too, and it was generally cheaper, easier and quicker to drive.
I nagged about checking emails constantly.

They did all bookings, emails etc. I had no input into the actual application other than proof reading. They did the finance application and did all prior contact with uni, accommodation etc. one did their own DSA application but I did help with the endless, lengthy emails for that - tended to have the important instruction hidden in the 8th paragraph etc!

I was open to giving any advice asked for but on the whole, they made their own choices of institutions. A teacher helped one with choices. Separately, dh and I covered a few open days, but not until the summer of year 12 at the earliest, some our dc went to on their own. The school initiated Oxbridge applications where appropriate. I wouldn't have pushed that myself without the school's input. I helped a bit with writing the application, particularly the personal statement. Everything else, including final choices and subject, I left to them.

I’m not at that stage yet, but my parents were very hands off and let me do what I wanted and supported it. I got accepted to Harvard for law, but went to drama school. My parents still haven’t mentioned it 15 years later. I appreciate it to this day and plan to take the same approach when it comes to it.

Thank you. This is all making me feel better.

You are going to get a range of answers, because it all depends on the proactivity and/or receptivity to parental input of your child and your own approach to fostering independence.

I adopted a broadly hands off approach but in the context of encouraging their early engagement with Open Days and their own research of apprenticeship routes - on the basis that elapse time allows for views to evolve and crystallise. If your son has not already booked himself onto Open Days held this summer, I would strongly encourage him to do that.

Depending on subject area, there may also be free or very low cost online sessions he can sign up to - to more fully understand what is involved. Perhaps prompt him to explore, but get him to do the legwork. Teachers can help but there is no substitute for direct personal contact by your son with uni information, online or via Open Days

Degree and other higher level apprenticeships are not better or worse than university, just different. They suit those with a very clear idea of career route, who understand what they are potentially giving up (broader career options, social scaffolding) by not going to uni in the conventional way, and who genuinely understand the pressures of studying in parallel to working in an accountable position from the outset. Early research is beneficial, as is signing up to online talks, because many roles open from September for starts the following September.

Again, prompt him to explore but get him to do the legwork. If his heart isn't really into doing that, that tells him something - and that is fine but stops apprenticeships being articulated as a vague possibility and puts the focus firmly on uni.

It partly depends on the child. I have been more involved with DD's UCAS form than I was with DS because she asked for my help. With DS I didn't even see his personal statement! I've helped both of them with researching university courses as I think this can be quite confusing (so many choices).

I agree with pp that it's better to go to the June open days - September is ok for one or two but is leaving it a little late. They get booked up too so you need to book early.

We’ve identified a few (4) he is interested in and put them on the calendar. I’ve made a note of when bookings open. But people I know have done 4 or 5 already!

I’m actually happy with him delaying a year. I’m not actively encouraging it but applying when you are certain of your grades seems like a good idea, and I’d quite like him to enjoy his A level years without panicking about the next step.

But maybe that’s because I’m not ready for him to go more than he isn’t.

I was very involved, for a start I'd recommend applying to far more than 'a couple' degree apprenticeships if he really wants one as competition is huge and the more practice you get at the process the better.

DS loves his, he lives away, is paid and is saving money and will have no debt plus 3 years work experience and hopefully a job at the end of it.

I wouldn't tell him to talk to his teachers - what teacher has the time for an in depth chat about this sort of thing? Teachers often don't seem to have much of a clue I find, especially when it comes to degree apprenticeships.

I think it's a mix. I remember standing behind one mum and daughter at a uni open day waiting to register and the mum had a whole folder of information about the uni, including plan for the day, questions to ask - and she'd actually booked the Open Day. The girl stood by the side looking entirely disinterested.
If you have to push to that level, it's probably not the right way forward for your child.

Equally, DD saw some of her peers in November of Year 13 suddenly realise they had been to no Open Days, didn't really understand the UCAS process (there was one talk at school), and had no idea if they wanted to go to university or not, what course they might do or how they decided. They probably needed a bit more guidance.

University costs a lot and most parents will have to contribute financially towards their children. For most people it will be the most expensive choice they make other than buying a house. I think you do need to check in and make sure they are making sensible and well thought out decisions and not just mindlessly drifting into something.

You should be aware that most DC do not go to Open Days on their own - so whilst it's great to suggest this, I'd make sure that your DC knows that you are perfectly happy to go with him assuming you are (and potentially go off on your own for some or part of the day if that's what he wants).

I’m definitely somewhere between the two 😂

I think it can be helpful to encourage a sense that stages of life overlap and that exploring options for the next stage before the current stage is fully clear is OK and a useful skill for the future. Y12 usually offers more time than Y13 for 'next stage' research as well as other things to build skills and experiences eg paid work, volunteering, passing driving test.

There may be the need to be comfortable dealing with 'overlap stages' at uni, eg in first year finding subsequent year accommodation, possibly sourcing employment in the uni town, applying for summer placements etc as well as getting to grips with the actual course; learning to spin plates in Y12 can make that less of a shock.

In relation to applying with grades in hand, this is not always an advantage for very competitive courses eg a course with a typical AstarAA offer might make offers to those with predicted AstarAstarA (and secured even if they only get the offer grades in results day), whereas a candidate with actual AstarAA in hand from the previous year might not get an offer; so, something to consider. Ideally a year out should be backed with a plan to get the most out of it and so may need its own research and actions, possibly in the more hectic Y13.

I've been pretty involved because I'm interested in it. Used to work in a related field so find it fun and it's been a nice thing to do together and talk about as he's not the chattiest DS generally. He's welcomed the help and discovering it all together, as it's been a real journey from what he thought he wanted to what he's eventually settled on. He wouldn't have got to that point if we'd left him to it, and with degrees costing so much now, plus the job market and all that, I'm glad he had that chance to explore options from early on and try various things out.

My parents were totally hands off and my teacher just chucked UCCA and PCAS booklets at us and left us to it, which meant I made some poor choices that definitely set me back, but at least didn't cost me anywhere near as much as they would now. I'm all for fostering independence but every kid is different and I'd assume you know your own DC best and will give them what they need, so no need to feel bad or better depending on what others have done. Sounds like your DC is doing fine and will know that you're there if he needs you more.

Presumably when you were accepted to Harvard Law you were already in your 20s with significant success in your undergrad degree behind you so the need for your parents to be involved was rather less?

I was hands off but ready to help when asked. It is good for kids to take on as much responsibility as they can handle. DC1 required almost no help. They went to Imperial College and graduated fairly recently with a 1st. DC2 is still a student and at a
good uni. They are doing very well. I helped them a bit more than DC1 but not much.

I did not go to any open days and actually nor did DC2. DC1 went to loads. My job was to book and pay for DC1’s train fares. It cost a fortune and would have been even more if I’d gone too.

I took my DC to open days from about this time in Year 12 (though more happen in the summer months IME).

I encouraged them to research what they might want to do and was very available to discuss options and possibilities. I didn't have any folders tho or know the ins and outs of their courses. In DS2's case (STEM) that would have been a non-starter anyway.

The application process (apart from courses requiring early application or specific tests) is pretty straightforward so there was nothing for me to be involved in there.

I think you know your DS – will he check emails and keep on top of things? Agree if he might apply to Oxford or Cambs then that is an early deadline so needs to be a focus.

Agree with this from @redskyAtNigh I remember standing behind one mum and daughter at a uni open day waiting to register and the mum had a whole folder of information about the uni, including plan for the day, questions to ask - and she'd actually booked the Open Day. The girl stood by the side looking entirely disinterested. If you have to push to that level, it's probably not the right way forward for your child.

I took DS1 to two open days. The first one was awful - he hated it but I was glad I was there because I hated it too, so when he said he didn't want to go there, that felt ok. Then we went to another one over a weekend (long way away) which was great. The place was great, the open day was great, the lecturers were fab, and we went out in the evening, got drunk and DS1 emailed his college on the way back to ask for help with his personal statement. And because he was so happy, and I loved the place to, it was very positive.

We didn't look at courses with him, we didn't see his personal statement, we don't know where else he applied and we don't know what offers he got. It worked out ok. But DS1 is independent. Some kids want support - this one doesn't. I think the eye opener for me was that you need to let go and realise it's their life not yours.

Think it's healthy to support and facilitate.
Not to lead or push.

Being too hands off can leave them feeling a bit lost.

I’ve gently suggested he chats to his teachers this isn't a good approach really as teachers don't know him, don't know the family circs (e.g. how much cash you have!), don't know the courses and have many students to support.
School is helpful with application process questions.

I helped research courses their were interested at different universities, I helped with the application form if they asked but final choice and other decisions regarding what university was up to them, it’s their future and it’s them that had to do all the hard work.

Fairly hands off. Both DD's knew they didn't want to go North or London. All were RG's. Both applied to Oxbridge, which the schools handled. We did discuss and advise, and took DD1 to open days, though not DD2 as all done online because of Covid. Both changed minds for final firm and reserve. DD1 bunged in somewhere she hadn't visited. All was fine!

Both applied to Oxbridge, which the schools handled.

Think it's very different if they're at a school that handles all that. There's such a spectrum of levels of aspiration/support from different schools, so if it's lacking, it's no bad thing to get more from home. Still different for each individual ofc, but I'm not so into the 'they can do it all themselves' angle since I once worked with an outplacement firm and saw how much help CEOs and other execs get with CVs, jobs searches/applications etc., and figure if the people running the world get their hands held this much - and many did all the way from fancy preps onwards - then I'll give my DC any help they need as they'll still have a ton more graft to get anywhere near those levels. Political bit over with! I still completely agree with @newornotnew that it's about facilitating not pushing, all of that.

I hate reading on the WIWIKAU page ‘we’ have an offer, ‘we’ have an interview. No, your child does!! Support is great but there’s so much enmeshed parenting going on which demonstrates super unhealthy dynamics imo.

I want to give my DS as much space as possible. But I imagine I will sit down with him to make a shortlist, unless he does it at school. And prompt open day visits.