‘Star’ GCSE pupil flopping A Levels - Advice?

[DownTurpinRoad]

DD, Y12, has always loved school and been a high achiever academically and a real ‘joiner’ (sports teams, debate club, all sorts of extra curricular stuff). She aced her GCSEs (Grades 8 & 9 in everything) and decided to stay at her school Sixth Form and do A Levels.

She hates it. Everything about it. Hates her subjects, but hates the idea of all the other subjects too. Hates academic writing at this level. Completely unmotivated to do her homework and and is way behind. Anxious and crying most days. Says she ‘just can’t do any of it’ and doesn’t understand why. Has stopped joining in with any extra curricular stuff at school and is generally extremely negative about all aspects of school.

Her attendance has always been close to 100%, but is now 70%. She just failed her mid year mocks in two of her three subjects and we have been called into school for a meeting. School have been supportive thus far, made adjustments, helped her plan her work, extended deadlines etc. But to no avail.

She is a good girl - mature outlook, thoughtful, kind, responsible (comes home when she says she will etc). Never had any issues with behaviour. She has friends and still has some outside hobbies (dance, music) which she loves. She just seems to have totally lost heart with A Levels and is now questioning whether university is for her.

Im just at a loss as how to support her. Tried listening, advising, practical support, offered a tutor. Tried ‘tough love’ and saying she just had to get through and see it as a means to end.

Now thinking maybe A Levels were the wrong choice for her? But what else does a bright but clearly not-interested-in-the-academic girl do instead?

Having done GCSES A Levels in the 90s I can say that the jump from GCSE to A Level is massive & we were warned about it by our teachers too.
GCSE is more about facts & the how but A Levels especially History is about the why & in-depth discussions about why & what led to that outcome & why did that happen & look at all angles, back every thing up, play devil's advocate & dig deep.
It's a lot to get your head round at 16.
You have to study outside lessons too & it is a shock to even the brightest of students.

And once you've mastered A Levels a degree is comparatively easier.

Also what @Thegoldenoriole wrote is true for many. It's not the end of the world if your DD has some time out & goes back to education later as one of my best friends hated school & left after GCSEs did all sorts of minimum wage jobs & returned to education at 30 & she's now a Consultant Midwife

We are going through similar with my DD. It's less about the work but she's really struggled with changes in school friendship groups, with friends going elsewhere, and new people joining the 6th form. She hasn't found her place. I think she's also struggled with the change in routine with free periods etc. School have been brilliant and she's still generally doing well academically (though she had a practice exam today which she things went badly) but she can't keep up with the absence. We have booked her some private CBT to try and help her thought processes. It's hard.

This was me back in the early 2000’s. Star student, aced GCSEs. Took A Levels in my best subjects and assumed all would be great.

I still can’t explain what happened but I changed - probably burnout. I had put a lot of pressure on myself for GCSEs and in hindsight, didn’t have a lot left to give. I hated A Levels. Couldn’t motivate myself to study and turned into a huge procrastinator (which never went away).

I ended up dropping out 3 weeks before my AS Levels after just reaching rock bottom with it all. Took a year out and worked at Burger King while I figured out what I wanted to do.
Did return to education and did a BTech. Made it to university but took a completely different path to what I’d planned.

Everything did work out well in the end x

This. It was the first thing that occurred to me when I read your post. I had the same problem at the same age, and so did my daughter. Both ADHD. The executive disfunction can really kick in at this point where more concentration is required for less reward. The other thing I noticed is that you dd is a joiner, is interested in lots of hobbies etc - again that can be a classic ADHD. At one point my dd was a member of 11 clubs at school... I hope you get to the bottom of it. She sounds like a great girl. If it is ADHD there are lots of things she can excel at with the right strateges.

Tough one. My DD is also yr 12. I'm really surprised on HOW many seem to have big issues going from GCSE to A Levels/Sixth Form in comparison to the uni jump. It does make me feel that something is off with the levels and jump here because I don't remember so many people having the same issues before? Going from 8s and 9s (theoretically should be 'very strong / exceptionally strong grades') to potential fails/low grade A levels. So no wonder they don't want 'average academic students' going in to Sixth Form for A levels. They only want very very top students. Again - I don't remember this being the case? There was a threshold for sixth form but it wasn't really seen as a big thing.

Are there any Btec options should would be more interested in still at Sixth Form? Could she restart yr 12 to do that? Otherwise you try and get her to stick it out and hope she pulls it out the bag in yr 13 and doesn't have a complete meltdown - or you look at apprenticeships/college.

I also agree that part time job sounds like it would do a massive amount for her. My DD's part time job has literally done her the world of good and practical, real life experience. She is definitely more of a work person than academic and she thrives there. Btw - she got that by just asking around at different local companies....there seems to be much less success for students now with traditional applications I think.

From your description she does sound like perhaps a prime apprenticeship student. Would she hate leaving her school now? Is it just the courses she dislikes?

Really agree about the job. DS16 year 12 recently got one and it is transformational. It was a real slog securing one but totally worth it. Gives confidence and another focus

That was over 20 years ago. The landscape has changed a lot since then.

This is really poor advice.

My super star DDs both with 11 and 12 GcSEs grade 8s and a few 7s both went to the local college then onto uni they both have professional high earning jobs. As lecturer at said college I lose track of the students coming our way after hating 6th form and AS levels

My heart goes out to your daughter. I remember the transition to ALevels and it was shocking to adjust to. My grades went from A*s to Fs and it was so difficult to get them up. This was around 15 years ago and teachers were a lot less supportive then than now I imagine in helping get grades up and more so expected you to just adjust and just get what they were telling you, but it just never was as simple as that when each subject essentially demanded singular focus and energy. The workload was immense and I can only imagine it’s only got so much worse. It took me over a year to bump my grades up to Bs and Cs but when you’d chosen particular subjects you wanted to study and originally excelled at, I remember it never felt like good enough and was so demotivating.

I ended up dropping out and studying one particular subject at college that I was very passionate about at college and it was the best thing I ever did. I excelled grades wise and did so well focusing my energy in something I simultaneously loved and was also very good at (and also planned to study at university so it followed the same trajectory).

Is there anything she might perhaps want to study at college? If she’d been wanting to study at uni, is there anything that she could study at college that would point her in the right direction and allow her to still get in (whilst letting her be happy for the next few years and ensuring that she still learns?)

My parents weren’t all too happy about me going to college at first. My dad actually refused to speak to me for a while but once I’d actually started and he saw how happy I was there and how it was helping develop my skills (in a more specific niche way) he felt it was the best thing I’d done and was so proud of me and ended up taking me to college most mornings 🙂

I have no kids of this age but it sounds similar to me at university. I found GCSEs and A Levels a breeze but when I got to uni (studying maths) it was the first time I was challenged and it was just a shock. As an overachiever, I found it was easier to disconnect than to work hard and potentially fail if that makes sense? Because then there was a reason of my choosing for not doing well. It's definitely psychological for overachievers so maybe get her some counselling to work through that and get some coping mechanisms. I still haven't figured it out and I won't try anything I don't think I will do well at 😅

Regarding her subjects, I did history and politics as well - albeit a long time ago - and I personally found them so much harder than my science subjects. It was essentially a memory game - you needed to remember a lot for the exams and three hours of writing essays was really tough. I know you said she doesn't enjoy maths / sciences but maybe explain that they offer really good transferable skills and will be well regarded because it might give her a break from all of the essay heavy subjects so she's not as overwhelmed by information constantly. It might also sound silly but are there any teachers she likes? Because I absolutely loved chemistry a level but I think it was because the teacher was so great so maybe there's a subject she hasn't considered but might enjoy / excel at with the right teacher?

This was me, I ended up with 2 C’s and and E at A Level after all A* at GCSE. I was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult.

A Levels were the point where I had to do some actual work myself, previously I’d had to put almost no effort in. I didn’t know how to do it and couldn’t focus on the independent learning.

I did an apprenticeship after my A Levels, followed up with a practical based degree that I was really interested in. I’m now doing my masters at 33 and have a good job working as a surveyor. It works well for me because it is always something new and I’m out and about rather than stuck at a desk!

I would agree with this poster it’s worth exploring neurodiversity my very bright DD also got all 8/9 at GCSE without trying too hard but struggled in year 12. Her mocks were disaster but then she got diagnosed with ADHD she is now making some gains back but she won’t reach her full potential as the school won’t give her any extra help as she showed no need at GCSE and they say that’s the rules but we are already chatting to her uni for September and they will get her the extra help she needs it’s mainly around organisational and planning.

She is clearly capable, as the A in English demonstrates. Does she hate History now because of the content or because she is doing badly? If the latter, it may be worth getting a tutor for a few sessions to teach her how to study and to how to write model answers. If her results go up the motivation may well come back.

If it's the former, then a change of subject or path is worth considering. If she is interested in apprenticeships, go for those that offer progression - right now she can only apply to level 3, but check if progression to level 4 and level 6 is possible should she want that in the future (not necessarily with the same employer (though that would be great), but in general, look for career progression).

My GS (with his string of top grade GCSEs) has gone to 6th form college rather than stay on for school 6th form. He loves the atmosphere .. no uniform ... warmer relationships between staff and students ... lots of bands to play in .... treated like an adult. It has been the right move for him.
At this stage, and with her current struggles, your DD maybe needs a new atmosphere where she might thrive.
But A levels and degrees are not for everyone, however bright they might be.
There will be a route for her. She just needs to be encouraged not to see the current situation as a failure, but as an experiment in what suits her and has provided positive information for future decision-making.

Sounds like she’s burnt out. Put everything into GCSE, expected some kind of rest after but instead got work at a much higher level. It may be she needs to take a few years out, work, then return to study after she’s had a break.

Or it may be that she needs to know that she can take a break after A level, try a new setting or that the work at university isn’t so horrible (fist year is pretty easy on most courses tbh).

I hated chemistry at A level… failed it in fact. Now a decade later biochemistry is my favourite module on my (third) degree. Age and time and experience change things.

Hi,

This sounds really similar to my experience. I’m 38 now - I did well at GCSEs but struggled with A-levels (mainly humanities too). I think it was a couple of things: the shift from quite structured, prescriptive learning at GCSE level to more independent learning was quite jarring for me. In addition, the new found freedom of free periods, driving, going out, drinking etc. just meant it was a bit too much for me to adjust to.

I didn’t do great at A-levels but took a gap year. I mainly worked but also travelled a bit and resat my some of my exams. I managed to get into a Russell Group uni to study philosophy and got a first. At uni, they took the time to explain how to read texts, write essays and reference so maybe some tutoring in this would help your DD. A postgrad student might be best placed for this and act as mentor as well.

That 16-18 period of life is stressful and chaotic. The whole world is opening up but you’re forced to make some adult decisions but some gentle guidance and grace will hopefully see her through no matter what she ultimately decides to do.

That must have been a hard time for you. Did you stay on and complete your degree? Or leave & do something different?

These replies are all so helpful. Every single one. Thank you so much!

Will reply properly later.

Me too although I’ve not been diagnosed with anything it wouldn’t surprise me. I skated through school making zero effort and getting great grades then at A-level so of a sudden I had to actually do the work and I just couldn’t.

i scraped passes but that’s it and then went into full time work and that’s where I shone. I am really really good at making quick decisions, absorbing and applying knowledge, flicking between multiple high urgency, high priority activities, translating complex high data concepts into layman’s terms, building rapport and being engaging (for short periods). None of which was any use in detailed lengthy essays or long term studies but all makes me great in a high demand high volume quick changing job role.

It’s really tough.

My son was/is a high achiever, flew through secondary doing really well, very high grades in mocks etc. He was the “Covid cohort” so he didn’t do his GCSE’s.
A Levels were a nightmare, he struggled massively and wasn’t open about it, but I could sense he wasn’t happy. We desperately tried to get him to change course, but he couldn’t as he felt like a failure 😞.
He finished A Levels significantly lower grades than expected.
This year he graduates from Uni, A Levels were a shock to him, so he’s really pulled his socks up and is on track to get a decent 2:1 which we’re really pleased with.

I wish I’d pushed him more to open up about A Levels, but he’s such a closed book and I didn’t want him to feel like we thought he was useless

There’s such a huge jump from GCSEs to A level, I think this is quite common. I left sixth form college with 1 x D and now I’m a partner in a law firm - so don’t panic too much!

My eldest did the same. A grade student in Year 1. By Year 2 he hated it and his attendance dropped to 60%. He left with 3 x E.

Would your DD be in a position to take some time out to go travelling? When will she be 18? We found that DS was a lot more mature after a few months in SE Asia and Australia. He had a much better idea of what he wanted to do with his life. He’s currently at uni doing foundation year Engineering.

Sometimes you have to let them fail so they can grow…

I used to be Programme Manager at an FE college. This is quite common unfortunately.

Students with a good memory and nice writing style breeze through GCSEs without putting much work in. As a PP described it, without learning to learn.

A levels are a bit of a shock to these students as they will fail if they don’t put the work in.

She is succeeding in English, so she needs to apply herself in the same way in her other subjects. It’s going to be hard work. She probably won’t enjoy it. That’s how her peers have felt for their entire school careers. It’s just new to her.

I hope she can battle through.

My two were the same, high performing at GCSE’s and both hated sixth form. Changed up some subjects but in the end both of them dropped out as their attendance was pretty poor. I was a single mum working full-time and couldn’t physically make them go every day. They both then pretty quickly got full time jobs (supermarket delivery driver and in hospitality). Three years on, they are both now looking at studying A-Levels at evening classes and are much more hyped about it and are doing it off their own back and money (some funding might be available), having realised that without that level of qualification, they cannot apply for the careers they want (in public sector). Education doesn’t have to be linear and having both worked for three years in customer facing roles, I can say they are generally much better equipped and are more articulate, considerate and confident young people.

I'm much older than most PPs, so I have a bit of a different perspective in that I don't remember the huge step change between O levels and A level.

However, O levels were designed to be much harder than CSEs (the alternative) and this was reflected in the grading tariff, BECAUSE O levels were aimed at able academic students and there was much more content in the syllabus. We only took eight subjects (in the early 1970s) and a full house of top grades was almost unknown.

Fifty years later, I found some of my O and all my A level papers, and when my DS was studying Classical Civ (not Latin -- severe executive dysfunction plus dyslexia), he took them to show the Classics teacher, who told him that current Y12 Latin students in a selective school would find them tricky (Scipio, Catullus and another text I forget). I'm sure the science curriculum syllabus is harder, but maths, MFL and humanities O levels were exacting.

Even so, it sounds as if you are looking out for your DDs best long term outcome @DownTurpinRoad and I'm sure she'll work it out to her satisfaction with your help.