A Levels for Dentistry

[LumpySpaceCow]

My daughter (Year 11) has decided that she would like to pursue a career in dentistry. We are at the very start of researching what steps she needs to take next but thought I would try here for some tips!
She is already set on taking Biology and Chemistry A levels, and planned to take German and History alongside them (with a view to dropping one). She now isn't sure whether she should take maths instead of German/History. From what we have read, most universities want 2 sciences, but she wonders whether Maths A Level will increase her chance of University offers.
She really loves History and German and will be sad not to study them, but doesn't want them to impact her long term career goals.
She is also unsure on whether to choose her school sixth form or a college sixth form - the college offers extra curricular linked to dentistry so wondering if that would also help her (although I am keen on her staying on at school for the continuity, small numbers and pastoral support).

Any advice welcome!
Thanks.

Two sciences is fine if that’s what unis say. I doubt if maths as well will mean her application is viewed as any stronger – but of course maths A level may well support her other science A levels. DS took maths and would agree it was helpful to his bio A level and also the first year or so of his bio degree.

OTOH a dentistry app is mostly about grades. If she will get a higher grade in history or German than maths then those are better options. Does she love maths? What is her GSCE PG? And for German and history? If the maths is 7 or lower her A level grade is unlikely to be above a B which may not be enough. Similarly for German tho tbh. History is more workable IME (ie you can pull it up if you work on skills and enjoy the A level topics as it is not a linear qual in the same way).

Thanks for your reply - that is really helpful.

She finds maths easy but doesn't particularly enjoy it, whereas she loves history and I think she will find it easier to get a higher grade in this subject.
Her targeted grades are 8-9, apart from chemistry - she achieved a 7 in her mock and knows this is the subject she needs to focus on the most out of the sciences (she achieved 9s in biology and physics but who knows how the final exams will go!). I have read that some universities want minimum 6 at GCSE so think she should be fine.

Unis in general are interested mostly in Eng lang and maths and unless it's a maths-related degree (such as econ) they usually want a 4; some do require a 6 in both (UCL for example).

But for dentistry I think (like med) that unis also look at overall GCSE grades and are probably looking for 6-7 grade 7+ at GCSE. So that's worth bearing in mind as well.

A grade 7 in science is a minimum for A level tbh. Certainly if you hope to gain high grades at A level (which you need for a dental degree). Obvs sixth forms will accept students with a 6 but an A at A level is unlikely.

But overall if a higher grade in history and greater enjoyment than maths is likely then yes that's a better option. German is a great A level too – what's her likely GCSE grade?

ETA: get me pushing the MFL A level haha (my subject)

It is very competitive. Getting the highest grades possible is important and also starting to look for work experience at a dentists now as that can be the trickiest part to do if you aren't from private school or have dentists in the family.

There’s also the UCAT test. Does everywhere require this? Then interviews if shortlisted. Quite a few hoops to go through.

@tripleginandtonic Why do you think private schools have dentists on tap for work experience? It’s most likely offered by dentist parents.

There were no dentist parents at any of the state schools my dc were at. They all went private WE was the biggest hurdle, unless you're eligible for a scheme like access to dentistry

A contemporary of one of my DC is at dental school and they for sure do not have a dentist parent (nor did they go to private school).

I don't know tbf if they did work ex but they are certainly studying dentistry at uni. Not sure about access to dentistry scheme either but they are not a low-income family if that is a criterion. I mean that's only one example but clearly it’s possible.

Having German/History as an A level shows breadth which will be positive alongside 3 sciences.

Dentistry is extremely competitive though and she's likely to need straight As/A*s in order to get in, and it's a long and very full-time course.

Many dentistry schools also like to see that you have evidence of good fine motor skills, a hobby like embroidery or a musical instrument can help.

It's quite a stressful job and most dentists I know hate it though which seems a shame after all the hard work it took to get there.

Agree with your post @NeverSeenThatColourBlue except the last para! I mean I am not disputing your experience obvs :) but I certainly know a number of dentists who have enjoyed the role and continued it to retirement. An old uni mate of mine worked as a dentist until last year when she would have been 61/2. And another friend owns her own practice and still works well into her late 50s. Pretty sure neither of them needs or needed to work for that long.

Not that that disproves what you say of course. Just another PoV. And maybe it’s different for those who qualify now – obvs my examples all did the uni course in the 1980s.

I have a close family member who became a dentist, married another dentist and know a lot of other dentists, and they are mostly quite unhappy but I suppose it depends a lot on specifics. They are mostly NHS dentists and complaints are mostly centred around patients often being difficult and entitled, the funding model being broken, and dentists from overseas being brought in to fill the shortages, often countries with very different standards applied. They have to take examinations to prove qualifications but the family member in particular finds himself having to effectively teach someone who is expected to be qualified the basics, and often they are quite hostile to this as they consider themselves equally trained.

Private dentists seem quite happy though!

@NeverSeenThatColourBlue ah yes that sounds challenging. Uni friend not sure if she was NHS or not (knowing her most likely tho) but friend who owns their practice deffo private so maybe that's the key,

@tripleginandtonic That’s not the same everywhere I can assure you! Dentistry is like medicine and vet science. It’s in families who support dc. Many dentists are fully private. It’s the norm. They don’t seem that unhappy! No one is happy being underpaid by nhs!

Its not impossible, I'm just pointing out that privately educated dc are still overwhelmingly represented. My dc aced the interviews/personal statement and grades but the work experience was really difficult to get Just a heads up to OPs dc while there's plenty of time to do something about it.

@tripleginandtonic Stats for that assertion? I’d be amazed. Certainly not true in medicine so why dentistry? Where is your evidence for saying that?

Just going on my dcs cohort.

As it goes neither of the dentists who are friends of mine educated their DC privately. Neither did my own actual dentist! admittedly a pretty small sample and I agree that it is wise for the OP’s DC to be aware of a possible issue getting work ex.

@tripleginandtonic So an anecdote then! It’s almost certainly rubbish. Did she ask them all where they went to school or did she just make wild assumptions and you repeated them?

My family member dentist was privately educated but he didn't know any dentists for work experience. He just rang round a few dentists nearby and asked until one said yes.

They spend 5 years together, things like schools get talked about and its not a large cohort
OP posted for advice, I'm just giving her some about the hardest part that my dc faced.

Thanks everyone - lots of really helpful advice. Her target GCSE grades are 8s/9s and a 7 in chemistry - which she knows she will need to work hard at to achieve at least an A at A level. The college sixth form that we went to last night were very informed about the UCAT, provided boot camps, medical and dental society clubs, dental school visits etc. and generally achieve really good grades in Sciences.

Work experience is a good shout - we don't know any dentists but will get contacting them - a student last night said most students didn't have medical/dental contacts but all had work experience (the college is in a typical, working class town in the North of England for context - no privately educated kids round here).

Nice point about the extra curriculars- she has quite a few musical/crafty hobbies, D of E and Scouts which will hopefully support her application (or at least give her some confidence and develop her communication skills for the interview and profession).

I never fully realised how difficult a career path it is - the biology teacher last night advised that it was more difficult to be accepted to dentistry than medicine. She knows it will be really hard work but she has the motivation and determination to do well - she might decide in the next year that this isn't the way she wants to go, but she would like to pursue a career that is science based and only really wants to go to University with a career in mind (rather than just pursuing a subject she enjoys).

@tripleginandtonicBeing jealous of other students. I don’t see that as helpful. In the end, all want to be dentists and have a common goal. Once they get on the degree, it’s a level playing field and dc probably need to get over class warfare.

Most dentists are quite happy to let a student come and sit in on appointments as long as the patients agree to it ofc. You just have to be proactive, which you'd expect from any child aiming for a demanding and competitive field.

Not where I live. Dc dropped 20 + cos off in person and only one got back to her. Luckily one was all they needed. One private dentist said if she was a patient they could have helped but no NHS dentists were able to help.

Work experience is really important- you need to know if a job that is so hard to get in to will suit you!!

The school might have contacts, or get in touch with the local hospital- they often have oral surgery departments ( tooth extraction and the like). Or try a community dental service- they treat people with additional needs like learning disabilities, its a very rewarding branch of dentistry to chose and would give you lots to write about on apersonal statement...