Year 12 - 2025/2026: Support Thread 2

[QueenMabby]

A new thread for us to keep chatting on!

@ThisPerkySloth2 my DS is also interested in engineering - I wonder if there is a common theme 😂

Just checking in. Enjoying half term away but DD seems to have masses of work to do plus has a music exam in the second week back so had to bring her instrument with us. We’ve done 2 open days just to get started but will exit until summer to do bc any more I think.

@waitingquietly 😁i think so. Very laid back! but does get things done when needs to!

👋🏼 everyone! No uni lists or courses here but I am taking her to our local uni this weekend. where we’ve booked into 3 talks; Psychilogy & criminology, a Business talk and a Law talk. She’s loving psych A level but not doing biology and hasn’t really mentioned it as a career but it could be worth listening to what they have to say. She’s fancied Law for a while but knows how hard it is to get a placement after uni. She needs some ideas really!

@NotDonna - that’s a good idea. Law is so tricky now to get into. I think it’s something you have to really want to do. Mind you there are a lot of non-lawyer jobs that you can also do with a law degree. It can be a rather dry subject to study though.

There are loads of really good resources online about Law, whether she wants to do a different degree and then the conversion year. Or the route of a barrister v solicitor (after degree you either do SQE for a solicitor + then a 2 year training contract or Bar course for barristers + then a year Pupilage).

There's also loads of good virtual work experience programs (look at Springpod and Futures for All) also the potential to do work experience in her local area etc. She can cold email places, and also go to crown court and just watch cases for the day, sometimes you can get lucky and just talk to barristers afterwards, and they may let her shadow them, so definitely be brave and just ask if she wants something.

Definitely look online at things like ZeroGravity and lots of programs to see whether she'd want to do it. It's a very broad range, from immigration to human rights, criminal, family, employment, media and entertainment law. If she is looking at degrees make sure she looks at the optional modules as the 1st year and most of 2nd year tends to be the same everywhere (teaching methods like CBL) are different but as they are regulated professions they do the same 7 modules.
But optional modules are where you get to explore different areas of law, sports law, media law, family and others and think more on career development.

There's also good joint degrees for law which are still qualifying (LLB degrees) but are Law and/with Politics or Law and/or with Sociology/Criminology etc so she might like that as well. PPL is also a more widespread degree, of Philosophy, Politics and Law. KCL, Warwick I know do this and more are starting as well.
As well as Law and Internet Relations. So it gives her the opportunity to do another interesting subject and keep options open as well.

https://www.lincolnsinn.org.uk/becoming-barrister/
https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/career-advice/becoming-a-solicitor

Hopefully she gets a good overview of just what university in those subjects could be like, pathways afterwards and just to get her thinking. If you have more time just look around different subjects and prospectus can be a good to have a read through. What A-level subjects does she do except for Psychology. In terms of Psychology, I'd say it's again like a law a long journey post degree, and so if she decides to do that, I'd recommend again being pretty sure because there is a need for further training if she wants to work in psychology post-degree, become a psychologist whether clinical, forensic, educational etc.

I've booked to take ds2 to visit Loughborough in 2 weeks, open day 15th.

I am literally having no joy at finding any alternative to uni, eg apprenticeships. For a football loving lad. There is literally not-very-much. Starting to get a bit concerned.

There's never been that much here with apprenticeships - there a rare few mostly in engineering.

I have seen careers fair just with apprenticeships rather than Uni - so might be worth seeking out any local to you.

DD2 has decided chemistry as subject - and thanks to a uni think at college has already got a few on there - one crossed off as too far away from us. She's been very realistic about grades - but that does mean if AS levels go better she can be look at few ambitious ones post results. Seen with older two AS levels are pretty spot on with actual results despite what their teachers seem to say.

DH says we will do open days after new year as those will be aimed at DD2 year group though we have careers fair in November anyway to get to.

@CatHairEveryWhereNow If looking at chemistry then do a bit of research about the numbers of students and the security of the department at her potential institutions. Chemistry is one of the most expensive degrees to run for universities and dwindling student numbers mean that quite a few universities have closed their Chemistry departments and cut their Chemistry courses. Last thing you want is for her to fall in love with an institution only for it to cut the programme!

https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/chemistry-cold-spots-emerging-across-the-uk-rsc-warns/4021856.article

I’m late to the conversation about Law - I typed and then got distracted - I loved studying Law - didn’t find it dry at all - but wasn’t really enraptured with being a solicitor - I never returned after having DS1. We are all different and what suits one DC won’t suit another .

I’ve been looking for apprenticeships - DS2 is more keen to work asap when he’s done GCSEs this year - there isn’t much locally so I’m trying to funnel him into staying at school and learning to drive to increase options . With degree apprenticeships the thing that concerns me is that the Company tends to chose a close by institution which often isn’t a top Uni - I presume this impacts future employability .

DS hasn’t even started looking at potential unis yet, though does want to do engineering. His college have said that degree apprenticeships are very competitive and harder to get than top unis.

In terms of law - DH is a barrister and did a joint honours with politics as his undergrad and was glad he did as he didn’t find the law part very interesting, the bar course was more interesting. I don’t think it is easy now to get work experience in law, his chambers only take undergrads for mini pupillages.

That's a very useful article - thanks.

DH a Uni lecturer so sadly very aware of cuts his department still had restructuring which just means increased workloads on already high ones. We are also aware how many fewer chemistry degrees there are out there than when we went to Uni as DD1 looked initally at chemistry - she on a better course for her now.

We also considered Welsh universities aready as we're in wales and funding may change to favour welsh uni next may. There seem to be only two Cardiff - too close for DD2 and Swansea.

It's hard as we have to factor in so much and guestimate likely grades - though AS levels are a huge help. Older two are at uni already and DD1 getting strike disruption and DS just started at Sheffield that was constantly in press over summer with cuts and threaten strikes. DH keeps on that once they start a course there a legal obligation for it to be provided but doesn't mean staff would stick around so would still be disruption.

Chemistry is a very useful subject as you likely know and needed, it's a shame it looks like levels of student engagement is dropping and the workforce reducing. Especially when they help so much with healthcare innovation and others things as well, I would say though that there loads of jobs globally ans an opportunity to travel etc, and often with big companies it's not too difficult. Plus with lots of NIH studies being cut and having to just stop, which I think hasn't been covered enough, a massive longitudinal study into women's health, which would have been amazing, and other brain research and more. Anyways it means particularly in the EU they are changing policies, creating incentives for lots of scientists to come to EU countries, Ursula Von de Lyer is doing a lot on this. Also the UK is as well and Ireland has lots of major pharmaceutical and chemistry involved companies. Anyways this is just a ramble and likely stuff you know, but just thought I'd say there's a very broad useful space for chemistry and so it's great she wants to do it.

Does she like any southern England unis? Or hasn't looked at enough yet? Also when she goes to open days, definitely ask about placement years ans also the careers service. All unis will have a careers service but some do more than others, have good portals, assesment centre practices, pratice online tests, talks on them and 1-1 helping you prepare, panels with alumni and professional, help with CV and applications, also internships, short and long-term etc. So definitely don't ignore that as it can make a massive difference. Also placement years are great, paid, good experience, can lead to grad job offers as well. See if the uni has good links, alumni networks, helps with the prep, applications etc.
Anyways nothing you don't already know I'm sure, excuse my rambles.

Also on the law work experience it is hard, particularly for barristers I'd say to shadow but going to crown court, or family court is free and useful. Also more junior barristers I think are more willing as they know how hard it is to access especially if they are from backgrounds with low rates in the profession. I know some friends with no connections who did it during 6th form and got shadowing by just bring brave to talk to barristers. Some say no but you only need one yes. Also there's way more programmes from unis specifically, online and in-person from places like Springpod, Futures for Schools, SMF, etc, some are for low socio-economic status, BAME etc but many aren't. Also again cold calling small local firms can work well. It is luck though a lot of the time (excluding those with connections). There's also not a lot of promotion for opportunities so many people don't know which is a shame.

Oh I did chemistry so good subject choice 😂. If anyone is looking at chemistry or engineering also take a look at materials science especially if looking at Oxford. Better success rate! However do make sure you want to do the course and not because you want the place.

I've suggested material science to her - as at least one course has modules on area she'd want.

However she worried as as she not taken phyics as secondary put her massively off - she learnt most of the syllabus at home with us and her brother - that they'd be too much physics though she doing two maths A-levels.

Though I did read the numbers taking material science is now really low as it was in a papers top ten least popular courses - so not sure how secure those corses would be either.

@CatHairEveryWhereNow we picked the welsh unis for the funding - DD1 didn't like the cardiff accommodation (really small kitchens) or the distance from the hospital). Swansea ticked all of her boxes and she is having a very nice time. But no idea what it's like for anything other than healthcare, where the fee-free course is obviously a huge bonus. Singleton campus is nice. She likes her flat - and the ability to amble over the road to the beach. No pressure on second year accommodation either which is great.

Edited just because I said wrong kid. DD2 won't be going to Swansea - doesn't do her courses!

DS didn't like Swansea when he looked round - but we'll see with DD2. So good to hear it's liked by other students plus I've looked and they do material science - and DH says last time quite geared up for two lots of talks so could likely do both departments on one visit.

It's hard as funding may change for her. Then I supposed it did between me and my Dsis and DS will get hit with the higher Uni course fees as he's at English uni. Cardiff just too well known to her but funding may force some unwanted compromises have to wait to see who gets in next May and see what their plans are and when they'll hit.

I think this is a very common concern which is such a shame. You’re correct that very few ‘top ranking’ (for want of a better phrase) offer degree apprenticeships. BUT everyone knows that degree apprenticeships are seriously tricky to obtain & it’s much more straight forward to get an RG ++ offer. At the end of the degree apprenticeship the student has a ton of relevant work experience, a degree, a job and are well on their way to forging out their career. They are not needing to apply for a grad scheme; they have passed that stage & which uni the degree was obtained is rather irrelevant by then. The graduate job market is tough so to be a few steps ahead definitely out weighs the uni attended.

@notdonna - a good point - thank you .

This is true @waitingquietly but for a solicitor apprenticeship (definitely be sure you want to be a solicitor as there aren't really barrister apprenticeships yet) and all degree apprenticeships at the end you are at the level of finishing a grad scheme. So, for example, 6 years solicitor apprenticeships, in the 4th year they do the SQE, in 5th and 6th year they do training contact so 4 x 6 month rotations. Year 1-4 tends to be 1 year in each team/rotation. So you can not compare a student finishing a law degree to the end of a degree apprenticeship because that's not a fair assessment. The 4th,5th, and 6th year are the same for them in terms of the plan. You can compare a uni student finishing a 3 year law degree to a degree apprentice finishing their 3rd year of apprenticeship and having work experience.

But a degree apprenticeship in law means you only do the 7 compulsory modules which make an LLB degree, this is what is done in 1st and thw majority 2nd year in degree, so you have no optional Y1 modules and then more in Y2 and then Y3 is open to anything plus dissertation. So law school means you can explore more areas of law, not just the compulsor
y 7, so family law, sports, media/entertainment law, immigration law, human rights. Often with a solicitor apprenticeship, you are going into commerical/corporate (though this has many factions, mergers, real estate, pensions etc), or criminal (less of these), or maybe family (again quite rare).

So if you want to do other areas of law or aren't at all sure what area, a law degree is probably better. You can do vacation schemes, internships, mini pupillages etc across the way to get experience - and when applying for a training contract or a pupillage, they aren't going to be unfair and think you need a ton of work experience because they aren't comparing you to their 3rd year apprentices, so they won't have the same expectations of experience. You'll have more theoretical knowledge that apprentices may not have, and they'll have experience with clients, understanding things you learn on the job, etc.

That is why by the time of a training contact and the last 2 years of a solicitor apprenticeship, you are on the same pay, doing the same things, etc, at the same point. During Y4 the only difference is the apprentices are doing the SQE and working but often get more study time/leave as it is very taxing, I know many firms give them 2 days 'off' when in Y1-Y3 they only have 1 day off.

There are pros and cons to both, and it's often done to each person as well. There are opportunities univeristy offers that you won't have on an apprenticeship (internships in many areas, research, roles like academic rep, running societies, doing outreach projects, trips, study abroad, being an SU councillor perhaps, also doing pro bono Law clinics). The same way a solicitor apprenticeship offers things like that day-to-day experience, being paid, etc. It's often very dependant on the person; are they sure they want to do that area of law for minimum 6 years, before perhaps needing to do extra courses do go into a different area of law.

They will have done the compulsory 7 that a degree has to get an LLB but when looking to go from corporate law to criminal, they have only done the criminal law module which by the end of their apprenticeship is 4ish years ago (and some during the SQE, so 2 years ago) so they are on the same level of a grad finishing their 4th year SOE looking for a TC in criminal law firm in terms of lack of experience and pratical knowledge when applying. It's also even harder if they wanted to go into a part of law where they didn't do it as a module in their degree because they only did the compulsory 7. So they may need to do further courses etc.

So if you aren't sure what area of law you want to do, whether you want to be a solicitor or barrister, want to do work experience and internships in different industries, a law degree is probably better, and if it was the opposite a degree apprenticeship is probably better.

That's why a lot of firms are saying that during the TC and last 2 years of the apprenticeship, and after when people qualify, they are noticing great benefit in how both apprentices and law degree student work together and they learn a lot from each other because they are both 'missing things' e.g experience, understanding clients, the way the office works, pratical implementation of the law, or knowing more theory/case law, opportunities of student leadership, outreach work, talks, research etc. They have being saying how much it helps both of them whatever route they've done.

Mmm not too sure our university visit yesterday was hugely successful. Bonus was it’s a 15 minute drive away. We didn’t look around as she’s not interested in a uni so close to home but we did go to 3 subject talks. Criminology/Psychology where the chap would be perfect for a sleeping app. I’d misunderstood, thinking it was a talk about criminology & psychology as two seoerate courses, but it was Criminology as 1 course; criminology with forensic investigation as 2nd course and Criminology with psychology as 3rd. She’s more interested in psychology as a stand alone - maybe.
I thought the Business degrees sounded interesting but as we walked out she pulled a face and said ‘ugh I’m really not feeling that’.
Then Law - with a rather dynamic older chap, who was pretty impressive. She says ‘imagine studying Law, just so so boring’. Totally perplexed I replied that I thought she really liked the idea of being a lawyer (particularly family law). She replied that, ‘yes the job would be amazing but the degree - ugh’.
Seriously!! 4 hours of my life I won’t get back.

Her favourite A levels are psychology & politics so perhaps we explore those avenues. 🤷‍♀️

I hope others had /are having more success in pinning potential next stages. If she remains confused at yr13 then I’m open to a productive gap year.

Aaargh, DD did a mock driving theory test online and just missed out on the pass (43/50 needed I think). She'll cram using the 4 in 1 app but anything else she should do before the real thing?

Apparently, 1 in 2 fail. Hazard perception mock was comfortable pass.

@CreamBeforeJamOnScones -DS has his theory test next weekend - he has just been using the app - he told me he got 80% when he did a practice test a while ago but didn’t know the pass mark 🤷🏻‍♀️ - I’m hoping he pulls it out of the bag as I really don’t want to have to keep taking him to take it - he’s also never failed anything so I think he would mind failing this

@LivelyViper thank you for the interesting info about solicitor degree apprenticeships . I qualified in the mid 1990s and haven’t worked as a solicitor since 2008 so it was really interesting reading to see how things have changed .

@LivelyViper- that was a very detailed response. I work in a large law firm. We recruit 50+ trainees every year….and one solicitor apprentice!