What is going on with Central Saint Martins?

[TenaciousDeeds]

My DD18 did very well in her A Levels and is now looking to go to art college in London in September 2026, to study either graphic design or photography.

We’ve booked open days at Central Saint Martins, Camberwell and the London College of Communication. However, a friend of mine who lives round the corner from Saint Martins says that it seems to now be almost exclusively wealthy students from China and Japan that attend, and that she’s heard their applications are very streamlined to succeed, as they pay almost three times as much as British students.

I thought she was being dramatic, but on their Instragram account there is a recent video of graduation and it is almost exclusively Chinese and Japanese students.

Am I right to think it’s probably not worth us going to the open day and to book somewhere else, or are all London universities like this now? I wouldn’t want her going to an art college where she has very little in common with the other students and that their studying is maybe prioritised over hers.

Yes. These colleges are high in the world rankings and fall over themselves to get foreign rich kids who pay the full whack.

My DD did the art foundation at Camberwell. She basically got nothing out of it because a lot of students had no English at all.

Similar at the RCA when she did her MA. Students were using translation apps to communicate with tutors or clearly paid outside for outside help to comprehend what was going on.

It’s 99% rich kids looking to buy a ‘prestigious’ qualification.

I would look elsewhere frankly.

They are quite open about the fact that 50% of intake is international. It is highly regarded by Chinese - my DD did a week long course at CSM while at school and she said a Chinese girl had flown over just to attend it.
mMy DD didn’t like the ‘vibe’ when she went to an open day, not so much the foreign students so much as the ‘I’m a wacky art student with blue hair and a dozen piercings’ and that concept trumped substance.
I would have thought UAL’s London College of Communication better suited for photography and Camberwell for graphic design (though I know it depends on the focus). Though same issue with international students who pay the bills!

Thanks for the feedback - so it seems most of the decent art colleges in London will be like this.

DD is very into gaming art, so we’re also looking at Brighton University’s gaming art course, and University of the Creative Arts in Farnham, which is meant to be no.1 in the UK for careers in gaming (and ranked 25th in the world).

Hopefully those two will have a lower proportion of international non-English speaking students!

Most unis are now going for a target of 75-80% international students because of poor funding for UK students.

I would look at other options. CSM has been like that for a long time. I went to uni to do fashion design in 2007 and had my heart on going to CSM or one of the UAL unis but they seem to favour foreign students. I was offered a place but turned it down and went to UWE in Bristol instead. I loved it and work as a fashion designer now. I'd say to avoid CSM, it's not what it used to be. I used to hear stories of rich fashion students paying to have their collections made in China or paying seamstresses to do the work which always felt like cheating.
Also just to say from my experience I would choose a course which has plenty of opportunities for work experience/good network - it's not easy to forge a career in the creative industries but any work experience that can help to get ahead will make a big difference and she will need to start building up work experience from the first year. You cannot just get ahead on talent alone. I'd also - thinking ahead look at companies (if there are any) that your daughter wants to aim to work for and go on Linkedin see where the employees went to uni, did they do Masters etc.

@TenaciousDeeds ah just saw your post that she's into gaming art which is brilliant that she has a niche. I'd absolutely go for the uni offering the best course/best reputation- will make a big difference.

And to echo what someone else said- CSM will encourage wild wacky non commercial ideas which in today's climate is not very helpful when building a portfolio and applying for jobs. I even found it when I went to UWE there was alot of wacky unwearable fashion which is not what prospective employers were looking for.

When I did a postgraduate degree in the very early 00s this was a phenomenon that was just starting to happen (I didn’t do it as CSM, but a prestigious university). I think 50% of the cohort were Chinese. Some couldn’t speak English at all! It didn’t affect my learning, but it must have affected theirs.

So I don’t think the fact that many may not have the language will make things tougher for the students who do?

Also, it was a long time ago, but the Chinese students did not mix with the non-Chinese students. It was basically all other international / uk students all hanging out and making friends; and the Chinese students hanging out and making friends with each other. Quite sad that there was no integration, I thought. (I didn’t do anything to integrate but I was very shy so wouldn’t have known how at that age!)

@Crapola25that’s great advice, thank you!

This is utter nonsense.

If its gaming she interested in try Edgehill. They have a solid reputation in the sector.
Animation and Graphic Design - Edge Hill University https://share.google/OQaOsFPmFFwy9S19a

Has she considered model making. It sounds niche but a friends DC is working on Hollywood films (in UK) and is doing very well. Went to Bournemouth?

@Fatcatsinspatsthat’s interesting! Can you say which course she did?

It was the BA Hons model making at Bournemouth.

University of Hertfordshire should be a serious contender - it’s one of the best in the world for animation.
My DD is at Durham (she switched from wanting to do animation to Sociology). There’s about one third international students there (and the likes of LSE have 70%). She said language is a big issue and as course rep she has brought that up. She asked the Chinese students how they liked the course and they said it was hard because they didn’t understand the lecturers and the reading was difficult! She was to do a group project with them but it was clear their comprehension was not good enough. This is bad for the student, for the course and for other students as well. The universities need to have a higher and better level of English comprehension than what is required now.
As an aside anybody reading this with a child thinking of fashion design I recommend Ravensbourne - DD didn’t like it for animation but we were blown away by the fashion. And do your foundation at Morley College in Chelsea.

@mondaytosunday thank you - we’re going to visit this one too now.

I've heard Kingston is very good these days and is now one of the more desirable art colleges, from friends DC who are starting there.

DD wants to go into fashion and we are Bristol based, where would you recommend? Looked at the UWE grad show in the summer wasn't very impressed, Bath Spa only had 30 students. Was thinking NTU or Man Met, partly as might be cheaper to study in.... Do you know of any relevant apprenticeships ?

@BreezySwan it's a long time since I was a student but the best ones were ravensbourne, Nottingham, Northumbria and Manchester. I'd pick a uni that definitely shows at graduate fashion week at the end of the course as this is where alot of prospective employers go to scout for new graduates - it's how I got my first job at River Island. Also I'd try to pick a course that does a placement year - really hard to get a job without an internship.

Have a look at London Met. Their art school used to be called Cass School of Art until a couple of years ago (not a good role model so they ditched the name). My DS starting Fine Art next week. It’s one of the last proper London ‘art schools’ - all in one campus art, photography, fashion, printmaking, architecture, graphics. Seems great to me and I went to art school in the nineties :-) his painting studio is in Shoreditch. Cool or what

I went to UAL in 2016. I transferred as I felt so unbelievably out of place, as did my friend. We were both ‘normal’ and loved fashion, but it felt like a wealth competition, and if you didn’t wear insanely unique and abstract clothing, niche designers, and almost fancy dress looking outfits you were looked down upon. I went to UWE and my friend went to Uni of Brighton and we both were glad we did at the time

Cass School of Art used to have an amazing reputation when it was City of London Poly/London Guildhall.even in early days of London Met but I’ve not heard much about it recently. I’d love to hear how your son gets on @girlwhowearsglasses . Are you Londoners or is he moving to London?

Dd did a weeks taster course at CSM. The teachers and place were amazing but 80% were Chinese students who would not interact or engage. She concluded no way would she apply there when the time came. Such a shame.

Eventually people will realise and these courses will become Chinese only which will likely annoy the Chinese as they are paying for an English experience but will only be other Chinese so they may as well stay in Beijing.

Have a look at Arts uni Bournemouth maybe? It was on my dds shortlist.

We’re commutable from Kent, but he’s very London savvy as we lived in zone 1 until he was 13.

it seems like a proper art school. As an art professional I think it looks great - around 35 cohort per subject (170+ kids at UAL fine art now it’s all consolidated to one course). Plus where it is is a great crucible for interesting things to happen….

Given the £££ of the private halls (no uni halls) I’m expecting lots of international students as well as plenty of Greater London commuting kids. Will report back