Biology A level: How much maths?

[Toomanyminifigs]

My DS is Yr11 and we're starting to look at A level options. My DS is keen to take Biology A level but I'm concerned about his Maths.

I would appreciate any thoughts/experience as I weigh up how much I should be pushing this with his school.

Until recently, his school had a requirement of a 5 in Maths GCSE to take Biology A level. They've just announced they've upped this to a 6. My DS is only doing Foundation Maths (he's on track for a 5) but obviously he can't get a 6.

My DS is quite an 'odd' student - in that he's very strong in Science (he's taking Triple and is being predicted 8s) but he's always really struggled with basic Maths. He says the Maths needed in Science is 'different' though as it's in context (for example he can re-arrange chemical equations and can do mole calculations).

My DS has autism and has an EHCP, for context.

I will obviously be speaking to his teachers - and of course all of this is dependent on his GCSE results - but it would be really helpful to hear from parents/teachers who have experience of Biology A level. (They do the OCR board.)

I've been reading on this board and elsewhere that Biology A level is one of the hardest to do well in so I'm wondering if it would be best to steer him away from this as an option anyway.

Thanks for reading.

My DS2 took biology A level alongside maths A level and got a hard-won B in maths (A in bio and his uni choice). I think I recall him saying he didn't need it especially but I suspect it will have helped him – as in, the maths for maths A level was so hard (so he said) that maybe it made the bio maths seem easier?

That's not helpful to you really. Would his school accept his 5 at GCSE? Could he look at doing some of the H work (maybe after GCSEs) as a booster? Or core maths in sixth form?

What other A levels is he doing? I will ask my DS what his view is on maths needed for bio A level.

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.
My DS is looking at History and Geography as his other A levels (he's predicted 9's at GCSE). There is a maths requirement for Geography but it's 'only' a 5 at GCSE.

I know the school does offer core maths at sixth form and I would insist (and I imagine the school would too) that he takes this if he's going to take Biology A level.

I've read conflicting things online about now important maths ability is for Biology A level which is why I've posted here to get input from people who's DC have recently taken it.

I obviously don't want to set up my DS to 'fail' so if the consensus is that he's going to be way out of his depth, I will try and steer him towards other options. But also as he's showing an interest - and at least some possible ability - I feel he should be given a chance.
I know that passion for the subject is important at A level.

Well done your DS in his A levels.

My YP sat A level biology last year and about 1/3 of their uni course is biology now. In their class, anyone not taking A level maths struggled to get higher grades in A level Bio. There is a CGP book which is "Essential Maths Skills for A level Biology". I would take a look at that and see if you think your DS is capable of getting there as he will need to master these skills.

Thank you so much. I will order that book now. That's really helpful.

Thinking about it, the couple of people I've spoken to in RL who's DC took Biology A level also did Maths - and both the posters who've taken the time to reply to me here, it's the same. So maybe that answers my question!

By the time you get to A Level bio there is an amount of statistics that is needed. It's often not the crunching of the numbers that students find difficult, but the interpretation of the number that results

Thank you. That's interesting. Do you feel that the interpretive skills required are a specific skill that's slightly different from being good at 'straight' maths? If so, my DS may be OK.

I'm in the fortunate position of being able to afford a tutor to help DS if needed but obviously I also appreciate they can only do so much. I know A levels in general are a huge step up from GCSE.

DS has just started A levels at college, including Bio and Chem. College require him to do Core Maths, and he was required to get a GCSE 6 in all his A level subjects and maths.

My dd got a 6 in maths gcse and struggled with A level biology a lot. It was hard going she did pass with a very hard work C . I would possibly steer him away from it if not a solid G6+ in GCSEs. What does he want to do post college? Would a BTEC route be more suited? I wish we’d steered our DD that way as she would have coped better with coursework versus final exams.

It is a separate skill in itself yes, but there are some unpleasant looking algebra equations to use as well.

Given your son has EHCP etc, I would look at the tutor sooner rather than later, before issues arrive

For context, I've been a science teacher up to A level Bio, TA in secondary including in A Level classes and a tutor for sciences and maths up to A Level

If he is solid G5 then he may be better sitting the higher paper. On the foundation maths papers you have to answer a high number of question correctly to score G5. On the higher papers the first part of the paper is the foundation maths then moves onto more complexity and some students can master a few of those topics to actually get a G6+. As you don’t have to get as many questions correct as a proportion of the overall paper.

I have a PhD in a biological science, I didn’t take A level maths and have never struggled.
However I did do well at maths GCSE and would say that with a 5 on the foundation maths GCSE he may struggle with some aspects. Definitely not impossible though.
Core maths alongside should be enough.

My dd did A-level bio and I believe that the maths is mainly statistics. She said mainly did Core Maths rather than A-level because they wanted to keep up their maths skills and not learn more about topics that didn’t interest them like trigonometry.

Thank you. That's an interesting point and one I have been pondering. He's been doing some maths GCSE past papers and he's getting some of the really 'easy' questions wrong but then the harder 5-marker ones right so I have wondered if it would be better to switch him to Higher. Definitely something to put to his Maths teacher.

Weirdly, his Chemistry teacher said he feels DS could potentially tackle Chemistry A level given his marks in class exams/mocks. When I tell his Science teachers how much he struggles in Maths GCSE, they find it hard to believe.

Thank you. I really appreciate your perspective.

I think DS's autism makes the picture a bit complicated in that he is extremely able in the areas that interest him and that includes things like genetics, zoology, botany. He's been able to name animal bones, plant structures etc from a very young age but I do understand that this doesn't always translate into academic 'success'.

Thank you for your honest reply.
I don't know why some people think biology is the 'easy' science. Everyone I've spoken to tells me it's very hard. Well done your DD.

My DS is predicted 8s and 9s in all his other GCSEs - it's just maths that he has such an issue with.
This was picked up during his autism assessment. He seems to lack the ability to make basic connections between numbers which is obviously the foundation for maths!

There aren't many places around here that offer BTECs and sadly I believe they are being phased out for T levels which I have looked into but I think DS would struggle with for different reasons.

Interestingly, some sixth forms here ask for a 5 in maths to do Biology A level and some want a 6. (They all want a 6 or a 7 in maths for Chemistry or Physics A level.)
Obviously the more popular sixth forms are asking for a 6 but clearly some settings feel it is possible with a 5. Possible but maybe not the most sensible choice, which is what I'm trying to weigh up.

Honestly the maths in biology is very different to the GCSE maths. It's mostly statistics work and means median etc, some formulas and maybe a small amount of population equations.
At uni again it's population equations, statistical analysis etc
If the school will accept him on the course then go for it.
I wasn't very good at maths but was good at biology and have 2 degrees in it.

I don’t agree with this – tho my subject is MFL not maths – but it is also tiered. I would only put a student in for H tier if they were a genuine prospect for a grade 6. If a steady solid 5 then F all the way. Yes fewer marks will gain you a 5 in H but the marks are much harder won.

However in the OP's DS's specific case it may be worth trying a H maths paper to see how he does?

One thing I wanted to say was that bio seems a bit of an outlier to his other A level choices. Yes geog sometimes for some courses counts as a science, but realistically he is not going to find it easy to apply for uni courses for bio (if he wanted to) without a more science-focused A level as well. Not impossible tho.

Has he considered a third A level more related to his other choices? I am thinking sociology, gov/pol, Eng lang or lit, P&E, class civ?

I actually have the opposite experience with (eduqas) bio.

It is so kind of you to give up your time to reply to me and help me think this through. I am touched by the 'kindness of strangers' that go out of their way to help people on this forum.

My DS is thinking of archaeology or museum curatorship/conservation. I've been told that a science at A level would be helpful. I also thought Biology (although there is quite a lot of extended answers) wouldn't be as essay heavy as say Gov/Pol, Eng Lit/Lang. So would be a good balance with the History.

I value your advice about 'grade 5' students taking H or F at GCSE. It's a really tricky one. His maths teacher is weighing it up, I know. His ASD also comes into the mix in that he may panic in an exam if he's faced with a lot of maths questions he finds too complicated to even attempt.

Thank you for this. It's so helpful to get the perspective of people who have actually taken Biology at a high level.
I keep reading that Biology A level 'only' has around 10% Maths but then I've also heard that students not taking Maths A level will really struggle with it so it's hard to know what to advise DS.
I know that at sixth form you can change subjects within the first six weeks so providing he gets the GCSE grades, I'm minded to let him try.

A few years ago DD’s sixth form bizarrely raised the requirement to study A level biology to include needing an A in GCSE maths, yet only a B in GCSE biology? She finished the A level 3 years ago and still doesn’t understand why this was the case! In her experience it wasn’t maths heavy at all - a solid chemistry background was much more important.

DD isn’t a maths pro whatsoever (got a low B at GCSE - we had to beg the sixth form to let her in to biology..) and it honestly never was an issue in her A level.

A level biology teacher and tutor here.
It is around 10% of the marks are maths based questions.
The maths questions are mostly GCSE level skills like percentages, ratios, equations, surface area, converting units. But it's the applying to the biology context that students find hard. The actual maths is easy. I've had A level maths students find the maths questions hard because they haven't understood the biology behind it. You have to interpret the text/graph/table and know which numbers to use in the calculation and be able to interpret it. The stats isn't too bad because they don't have to calculate it themselves in the exam, but they have to be able to understand the result and what it means.

When we were looking at sixth forms last year we spoke to several students who were taking Biology, Environmental Science and/or geography with core maths. They said the maths was fine as they were taking the core maths. It may be worth looking at the higher maths GCSE as there will be topics covered that are not in the foundation tier. I think the decision on tier can be taken quite late.

Biology and Geography would definitely qualify as science A levels for a lot of degrees but some will ask for a 6 at GCSE maths, although may waive that with core maths. Worth checking a few courses if there are future higher education plans.

@Toomanyminifigs always happy to help if I can!

It’s interesting about science courses at uni – just searched, somewhat at random, biology at Lboro, Leeds and Manchester unis. Lboro just wants biology; Leeds wants bio plus ideally another science or science-related subject (geog is included) – if not then an A in bio; Manchester requires two sciences (out of maths, bio, chem, physics) but if you don't have the second science it may still offer (but a higher offer) if you have a subject from a list that includes geog.

So yes in fact he could still apply for bio courses. But it’s likely that his offer would be higher at some unis at least.

There is a thing about A levels complementing each other; I'm never sure if that’s important or not. I took 3 x languages at A level so go figure. I do think if (for example) a candidate takes French and German A levels (assuming the same board) there will be helpful overlap in terms of technique (this is now you do the speaking exam, this is what your summaries should look like).

DD took Eng lit, French and geog and says there was a surprising amount of overlap – even using geog principles and knowledge to inform her analysis of political and social themes in France, which makes sense. DS took maths, bio and PE so maths, bio and bio! Have messaged DS to ask him if it was helpful at all.