Advice please following GCSE's. What next?

[GianinaC]

My DD didn't get what she hoped in her GCSE's, she passed them all with 4's and 5's and a 6s. The 4's were in maths and sciences.

She really is adamant she wants to do A-Levels in the subjects she got 5's and 6s in but most 6th forms and colleges have slammed the door shut due to the 4's.

The other option is an extended BTec but the only option is a college that really isn't great IMO and out of the area.

I am struggling to know what is for the best. The cynical part of me feels the schools and colleges set the bar high so they can have a bigger certainty of success. She was literally marks away from 6's in the subjects she got 5's in.

I guess I have two questions.

Are A-Levels so hard that a 5 and 6 means she will likely fail?

Are Alevels going to help her more than a Btec extended?

Back when I did A-Levels (and passed), they just let me do them regardless of my poor GCSE results. A different time and perhaps they were easier then.

Everyone goes back next week, and it's been hectic. I wish they had the results earlier.

I'm not sleeping worrying about it.

My daughter struggled with A levels, despite strong GCSE results. In some subjects there is quite a leap. Whilst it's understandably upsetting and frustrating, when colleges turn students down it is because they feel that students will struggle and if accepted, they would be setting them up to fail. I would look at BTEC or T levels.

What subjects did she want to take at A level? In maths, MFL and science really a 7 is advisable or a student risks the likelihood of a very low A level grade (D ort E) which is not going to get them very far. Often in this situation a qual like a Btec with continuous assessment can be better.

It does depend; did she work really hard at her GCSEs and achieve or even exceed expectations – or did she do much worse than expected eg bc she didn't work hard enough, missed a chunk of the exam, had some kind of challenging circs? If the latter, that would be something that could be changed (eg work more, work on exam technique or obvs circs will hopefully be better) so A levels might be more feasible. If a 4 or a 5 (even a high 5) is the limit of her abiity then A levels will be a real struggle. A 6 would usually be acceptable tho (except in very high-achieving schools).

Btecs can get her to uni if that is her aim. Did you have a plan B or just the school A level option? How far away is the college? Does she have a provisional place there? Is an apprenticeship an option? https://www.gov.uk/apply-apprenticeship

DD's average 6th form wanted 7s and preferably 8s at GCSE for the A levels she took this year. I think she'd struggle.

It's drama, sociology and history A-levels.

Much to me annoyance she didn't work as hard as she should. And now I have to stop myself saying told you so, but she knows this herself as she is gutted.

The plan B was a BTEC but she is getting conflicting advice. The college is like 50mins away, doable but also it felt like a meat market where people are forced to go. That was the vibe. Maybe I need to keep looking for an alternative.

I guess this has been my confusion as some have said a minimum 4 in English and Maths (not near us but on a google search) and 5's in the subjects, so I was confused why there was such a huge difference. As you say some say 7's.

Yes. DD sat her A levels this year. These are maths and sciences.

Colleges are a bit like universities.

they have different entrance requirements.

as other have said, maths, sciences and MFL a levels you really do need good gcse grades in those subjects to do them at a level.

drama and sociology should be doable with her results. History is a challenging a level. Did she do history gcse and if so what did she get? If not then did she do another essay gcse (eng lit maybe?)

Gently….speculating on what a particular 6th form’s entry requirements should/should not be will not help you secure a place for DD this week. Maybe she could have worked harder, but it’s done now and you need to find her a spot somewhere where she does meet the minimum requirements. Sharpish. Even if you don’t like the “vibe”—the students who get to be choosy on “vibes” achieved higher results.

If she wants to do drama, sociology and history she really needs at minimum 6 in essay subjects - English lit, RS, History.

Also depends very much on how she got her 6s. If it was hard work and she hated it, then A levels aren’t for her perhaps. We often accept our own students with lower grades if we know them, their grades unexpected but they work hard etc. BUT those I accept onto my essay based subject with a 6 are much more likely to get C/D. They can outperform that but statistically less common.

if she likes drama/ sociology could she find more creative breca, the coursework elements may also help her greatly

50mins (is that door to door) is pretty standard in my area of Hants where there are no school 6th forms and everything is colleges. My DD's journey by bus is 1hr with the walk to the stop.

In my opinion, good grades (Distinctions so eg DDD or DDM) at an Extended BTEC would be better for uni than Ds and Es at A level.

Not much point looking at options off the table.

Compare options still on the table:

• Has a teacher checked the scripts of the 'just missed a 6' grade 5s. Is it worth paying for a review? Would that re-open some colleges who have said no.
• Is there anywhere who would let her do the A levels with her grades she has? What is the distance? What is their track record (lower input grades tend to lead to lower output grades on average)
• What colleges are there within 90mins door to door. What is the best course at each? On a Level 3 with no resits she may only need to travel 3 days a week compared with possibly 5 for A levels (because timetabling is easier for BTECs)
• There is a whole BTEC thread on this board, have a read. BTEC/T level/other vocational 25/26 | Mumsnet

In general, a young person whose grades at GCSE are 4s/5s/6s is going to get grades CDE at A-Level. If your daughter going to be able to pursue her current plans with A-Levels at those grades? Because if she's set on A-Levels because of plans that are going to need AAB at A-Level she is better off changing those plans now. But there are plenty of non-elite universities that will admit students with D & E grades at A-Level.

A Levels do not have to be done immediately after GCSEs. She could do something else then return to start A-Levels after a year or two. This might be wise if the main issue at GCSE was a general lack of maturity which meant she just didn't study hard enough.

Colleges that set 7 as the minimum GCSE grade for starting their A-Level course are expecting everyone to be getting an A, with their occasional B regarded as a "failure". That's not an environment where your DD will thrive, her achievements will be disregarded and she'll lose confidence.

A Levels are indeed hard. They are designed to sift out the highest-performing academic kids. There is nothing wrong with being an average kid. There's nothing wrong with getting Ds & Es at A-Level, they just don't work as a path for an average kid to get into the "elite" of the highest academic performers.

I agree with the PP that you need to consider why she didn't do as well as she hoped. Did she:
-Work hard and feel she did her best in the exams? In which case it might simply be she isn't capable of better in academic study and another route would be more suitable
-Work hard but screw up the exams, so exam technique work is needed
-Not work particularly hard because she didn't enjoy it, so again a-levels probably won't be right
-Not work hard because she was distracted by social life/boys or was overconfident, and feels she can commit to hard work this time around?

If you can get to the bottom of this you would have a better idea of whether university is something she should realistically aim at or not and whether it's worth casting the net wider to find a college that might allow her to do a-levels.

DC has just completed A levels - he took all essay based subjects including History. It is a massive step up from GCSEs - it’s no longer a memory test; essay structure, formulation of argument, writing style all come to the fore. He loves the subject and is going to study it at university, so although it was hard work for him, he did enjoy it. There were moments of frustration though and it took him a while to really grasp how to engage with the questions to get the best marks - he resubmitted many an essay to his teachers. There is also the NEA to consider, it’s a big ask and best researched in year 12 before demands escalate in year 13.

Could she re do year 11 to try to achieve higher grades? This is likely to be at college

If she can write an essay or thrive in creative subjects she may do better at A-Levels. Some people do better when they can focus on three subjects they enjoy and stop having to study things they hate.

You can't redo GCSEs other than Maths and English, unless you pay to do it privately. And even for Maths and English, it's only if you get <4.

A levels are a huge step up and hard. Would definitely look at the btech. Ds did a levels did ok but it was a hard 2 years for him, his friend did a btech and got offers from all 5 unis he applied to and the work load was much more evenly spread over the 2 years and in hindsight might have suited ds better although they did d not really have one that excited him.

There is no nationally accepted minimum for doing A levels. At my school it is generally a 7 with some subjects accepting a 6 (including one of mine).

Even with 7s you are not looking at straight A*! Or As. There will be a range in there from C up.

It feels harsh but it isn’t intended to be, it is experience that shows students with lower GCSEs typically struggle, which leads to a miserable 2 years and a potential knock in confidence. It is really tough getting DS and Es repeatedly in tests/ feedback.

Post 16 options aren’t discussed enough and the different pathways considered. A levels are seen as the default and the others somehow lesser. They really aren’t. They are all level 3 qualifications.

My advice to you is to think further ahead - what does she want to do post 18 and even looking beyond that. Does she have something that she wants to do? Why those subjects? Do they take her somewhere or they seemed interesting.

It can be a tough conversation to have with you (emotions tend to get in the way!) but ChatGPT can act as a great coach asking you questions to help you figure out your own thoughts. “These are my GCSE results. I am unsure of what I want to do now. Can you ask me questions and coach me though the process”

Remember life is rarely a straight path, there are always twists and turns and the best views often come after an unexpected detour.

And she is more than just a set of numbers written in a piece of paper. Her grades do not define her.

This GCSE profile lends itself to a Btec or a Btec and 1 A Level. Pursuing this route with modular exams through the 2 years is likely to lead to higher results than via A Levels and if they want uni, to give more uni options than low A levels.

A levels are the academic route for 6th Form. The grade profile of DC doesn’t fit. And places which will take a student onto an A Level with 4/5 are looking at boosting their own funding and nuns on seats rather than student best interests.

It’s v common for 6th formers to travel to college. They might not need to be in every day and will almost certainly have some later starts. But time is moving on and it’s time now to really get this sorted out.

If she got less than a six in drama gcse it will be harder to do well at A level. Sociology is not a soft subject and has some maths content . History has a lot of content and analysis. Sixth forms set their entry criteria and without a mitigating circumstance they will probably not consider her. Maybe visit the college and speak to an adviser. Does she have any particular goal in mind for after year 13?

I know it was a typo but I love the idea of a college trying to recruit a load of nuns to do the courses.

Edited to add: you are right. The college is looking after their interests not the students in those cases.

GCSEs are good predictors of future A level grades. It is possible to do a levels with 5 and 6 s. My school allows it. She is most likely to get C /D grades in her A levels I would say. I say this based on the performance of many students over the years. Also history is pretty challenging of the 3 she is considering and she may find it a real slog.

Btecs can work out better but are not an easy option as require lots of effort over the course and still have exams. They will allow uni entry if that’s what she wants. I would suggest she also retakes maths to try to get a 5 as that can make a difference later in life.

What were the grade 6's in? If English lang and history then those choices sound okay. Or alternatively, can she do a combination of A level and BTEC?
I agree about the step up from gcse. My dc is doing stem subjects at A level and he got a bit of a shock. There were also some unpleasant end of year 12 results for some of his peers.

I also couldn’t sleep for worrying this week.

My DC got similar results and sixth form were very keen for her to sign up but she’s been torn between college and sixth form. In the end she’s gone for a college course as we think she will have a better outcome.

College is an hours travel but it’s only 2.5 days.

It’s not their life decisions, they can do something else after.

Drama, RS and English, History was 2 off a 6.

If she had received just 3's and 4's I wouldn't be having this conversation. She was just on the cusp and in the subjects she wants to do it was the higher grades.

I didn't like the BTEC college, not the distance so much, but I know my DD and she would find it difficult in that culture, one where many of them have been forced to go there because of a lack of options. That isn't meant to sound snobby, but I could see when I was there. Someone was like 34 and talking about their finances with the advisor next to us as they had also enrolled for the same course.

I don't feel it's the right environment for her.