DS not great GCSEs - adamant about 6th form

[Whatnextthen2]

DS got his GCSE results last week, and he tried really hard, but only scraped into 6th form (and needs to resit English)

He got: one 5, three 4s, three 3s and a btec pass.

His 3s include one science (he did double and one passed) and English literature and History.

School have said he can still go to 6th form on the basis that:

1. he has to choose different subjects (he doesn’t meet entry requirements for some he chose) and they think he’ll struggle) they’ve recommended he continues with the btec but he doesn’t want to as he hated the heavy coursework part at GCSE and struggled
2. he resits English literature

I honestly think he shouldn’t do 6th form with these results, and should do something more vocational at college/apprenticeship instead but he is adamant (he doesn’t like change and doesn’t want to have to get the bus to college either).

Has anyone’s DCs done 6th form under similar circumstances and it worked out well? The barely meeting required grades and then the fact he can’t even do subjects he’s wants is causing a lot of worry!

thanks

This is why I dislike schools with sixth forms. 16 year olds will decide to stay on because it feels safe and comfortable with their mates rather than striking off on their own and because the schools want kids to stay for sixth form their post-16 advice is often poor.

It's a shame school have bent the rules to allow him to do A-levels but I think you have to allow him to give it his best shot. I think all you can do is be honest that he will find it challenging and he might fail but also support him to do his best. A year of experiencing sixth form and maturing a bit might mean he's willing to look at alternatives next year.

Can you quietly do some research into local BTEC options so you are prepared if needed? It sounds like Law, Criminology and Psychology are a common combination that would be well regarded. This came up top of my search results and they suggest potential legal career paths for afterwards: https://www.bmet.ac.uk/course/applied-law-with-criminology-and-applied-psychology-level-3/

@HurtyFeels that looks like a great course - our local colleges don’t do anything similar!

are the business & criminology the applied/extending certificates rather than a levels? If so they may suit him well as it’s modular and exams at the end of yr 12 and 13. They are equal to 1 A Level each.

I don't understand why they are making him resit English Lit ,assuming he has a 4+ in Language?
Have you definitely got that bit correct?

I honestly think he will struggle at A Level. I had mostly A* and A at GCSE and got ABC at A Level plus 2 additional AS level a B and C.

I remember I had 2 Cs in the first modules I did and I was devastated S I had worked hard. It's a massive step up.

Maybe suggest a visit to the college just to see what that have to offer x

i think he’d really struggle doing A levels with those grades. Am amazed the school will allow him.

I think your instinct is right, and he’d be better doing something else. Can the school help with careers/college advice?

Hopefully there are sessions at the end of each day a bit like homework club where they can ask their teachers for guidance and help. If he is committed to this then he needs to dig in right from the off. Free periods should be spent doing his homework whilst it is still fresh in his mind from the class. If he can work in a group with kids from the class that would be good.

As for asking students to leave, yes they can because compulsory education is until they reach 16. He is funded 16-19 so can do 3 years but be aware that he cannot resit year 12 at the same college due to funding. Realistically he would be taking the place of a 16 year old year 12 student who could be given this place and excel.

BTECs would be so much better for him. What are other colleges offering courses wise? Kids do change courses and sixth forms in the first few weeks so look now for potential places. I think at this point all you can do is support him. For his English Language resit, find out what board he will be doing, look up the past papers online and do a couple together to help increase his chances of passing. Do one question, answer it, look at the mark scheme. What should he have written? What are they looking for?

The other advice I would give is see if the college have revision books for the subjects he is taking and get your hands on one of those. Mine used revision books whilst learning their A level, used the relevant sections to make sure they understood the content.

My DS got similarly (unexpectedly) bad GCSEs last year. Mainly 5s and 6’s and a fail. None of the local 6th forms would take him on so he is with the ‘rejects’ [as he and locals call it] at the tech college. He was devastated and we explored resitting but he was allowed to take 3 A Levels. As the year has gone on he recognises he was naive/arrogant about his ability, did not study effectively, disregarded exam advice because he felt he knew it all.

This year he has 100% attendance, attended any extra study sessions available, accessed on line study resources and has just got AAB in his AS Levels (they are required to pass these in order to be allowed to continue with the A Levels in Y2. There is no concessions - if you get lower than a D in the AS Levels you are ‘kicked out’).

It has been the making of him. He has matured, stepped up, found a work/study ethic that we truly did not expect of him. And his mocks, class assessments etc progressed from C/Ds in Sept right up to his AAB. He is now predicted A-stars in his exams next year [so long as he continues as he has been doing].

So, my question is, is the fear of him failing again what is motivating you? Or is there any reason to suspect your DS might not have a similar lightbulb moment? That with encouragement and support he can’t do the same? I’ve been worried sick that history would repeat itself this summer but DS realised that what he wanted and that he had to pull his finger out. I was fearing failure (and heartbreak) but what he delivered was a 200% commitment to turning his life around and NEVER failing through lack of effort again.

Perhaps looks at DS’s mock results and academic profile and explore whether he just had a blip and might actually flourish in a new 6th form setting? It sounds as though the college and the staff there are willing to give him this second chance - if you can do the same, support him in framing it that way, could he perhaps surprise himself and rebuild his self esteem?

Hi @Whatnextthen2 I am adding to the chorus of A levels will most likely be beyond him with those GCSE grades.

You say he wants to stay at sixth form for social reasons rather than the subjects- is that right? I don't know those specs well (criminology is not an A level I think) but no A levels are easy. How will he feel if he ends year 12 with Es and Us in mocks and is asked to leave? That's quite likely I would say.

Has he looked at college courses locally? Is he thinking of uni? Or how about an apprenticeship?

I am surprised the school is allowing him to continue tbh. What was his 5 in? Also the Eng lit retake is odd. What did he get in that? And what in Eng lang? That's the usual retake subject.

I passed 5 out of 9 GCSEs in school and failed maths twice before finally scraping a pass. I stayed on into sixth form, grew up a lot and chose A levels in subjects I enjoyed. I got AAB and went to uni. So it definitely can be done.

I think it depends very much on the school. My DS went to a high school in a grammar area, so the results were understandably on the low side. But the school has a 6th form and is used to supporting students with lower results through A Level. If that’s the sort of situation your ds is in, then he’ll be fine. If he’s in a class with much higher results than him then maybe he should think again..

Wow well done to your DS @CautiousLurker01 that’s an amazing turnaround. Couple of things stood out in contrast to the OP tho:

• Your DS didn’t study effectively at GCSEs – the OP’s DS “tried really hard” and still got lower grades, which is less promising
• Your DS got mainly 5s and 6s which, while not stellar, are solid passes; the OP’s DS got one 5 and three 4s and a pass on a Btec. Not terrible – but if achieved with hard work, not a great predictor for A levels.

My DS1 who has LD worked hard to gain CCDDDEE for GCSEs, so a bit lower but not a million miles from your DS @Whatnextthen2. College and an initial L1 course and then a L2 was definitely a better option for him than A levels.

I also don’t agree that it depends on the school/area. If a student worked hard and their best effort gained them a 3 or a 4 in (say) history or Eng lit, then the step up to a humanity, essay-based A level is going to defeat them, even with teachers who try to help. That’s fine btw. There is a suitable path for him.

Sixth Form teacher here at a ‘bog standard’ comp. A levels have grades of A* to E because students will access them over a range of levels. You DS may end up with Ds and Es - but so will lots of other students. If it’s a good school, he won’t be written off - he will get support and help to achieve the best he can. The fact that the school is trying to find a mix that could work for him suggests they will help.

At my school, we wouldn’t ask a student to leave if they were struggling. We’d put in support, maybe offer a reduced curriculum, maybe a resit year, maybe a change in year 13. All, of course, if we could see they were trying - not if they were missing lesions or homework. We don’t only want to help the best and brightest - we want everyone to achieve according to their ability.

Sixth Form is also a huge rite of passage and they grow up a lot. It’s not all about the academics.

So, I’d have a realistic chat about how hard he might find it, how will he feel if he’s struggling and the necessity of revisiting at the end of year 12. And then support his choices. There are many students who look like a ‘shoo in’ to A Levels and then struggle for all sorts of reasons.

@AbitmoreBert business is a level

@Piggywaspushed tes sorry language was 3 lit was 4

OK, that makes more sense!

I teach at a sixth form with pretty low entry requirements but your DSs do still give me pause for the course he is following. We do an awful lot of negotiation with students with mainly 4s and 5s and usually find them something- but in all honesty that's for the schools sake (funding is per pupil and is very tight) rather than the student's in most cases.

I hear you - but until 6m into the course my DS genuinely thought he had worked hard at this stage in proceedings. He truly thought he had enough. It was only through doing the course in a different setting and being taught in a different way that he finally cottoned on to what he had done wrong, if that makes sense?

My DC's former school (state comprehensive) wouldn't have accepted a pupil into 6th form with those grades. It's tough at the time but I think that on the whole they're right to discourage young people from going down a path that is unlikely to be in their best interests. Unless there are unusual mitigating circumstances, realistically it is very unlikely that a pupil with 5s and lower is going to either enjoy or be successful studying A levels.
However, I think it depends both on the pupil and the subject. If the subject is linear, like modern languages for example, it's obviously more of an issue to be starting with a low GCSE grade because that implies that there's some significant gaps in the knowledge that will form the foundation of the A level course. Starting a new subject may be a bit easier though the pupil will still need the relevant study skills so difficulties with essay subjects at GCSE may well lead to difficulties with similarly assessed subjects at A levels. Also there's a difference between a young person who worked their socks off to get their GCSEs, or one who isn't really interested in study and one who coasted, didn't put much effort in and has now seen the light and is prepared to really graft over the next 2 years. So whilst it's not impossible for a young person to get good A level results after this level of achievement at GCSE I think most people would agree that it's unlikely.
On balance, I think you are probably right OP and it's not a great idea for your DS to take A levels. However, he's a teenage boy and you're his Mum, and by the sounds of things, currently a lone voice, so I'd say that the chances of him listening to you are slim unfortunately. If he's set on this plan and the school will allow it I suspect that there is not a lot you can do about it. The key thing is probably keep communications open, keep and eye on what progress he's making and if things are not going well, try to ensure that he swaps to something more suitable whilst he still has time and funding to do so. Starting the course is one thing and if he proves you wrong I'm sure you'd be delighted, but he needs to know that he has alternatives and can change his mind if it doesn't work out.

I would say absolutely not to A levels and look closely at what equivalent the BTEC is. BTEC level 3 have everything from the equivalent of an AS level to the equivalent of 3 A levels - all at level 3 but called diploma, extended diploma etc. DS did an extended diploma (3 A level equivalent), it was absolutely right for him but he wrote something like 10,000 words for his first assignment.

On the upside if DS needs to find out for himself this year there is an additional years funding available so maybe just support him and do the research behind the scenes for options which are almost certainly more suitable for him.

My DS also worked really hard and got fairly average results with no extenuating circumstances. He did slightly better than your DS (655554443) and passed both Maths and English Language. He just about did well enough for A levels at his school but they did not really want him and we did not push it with them. As my username suggests he is doing a level 3 BTEC at college in a subject that he is passionate about.

We are fortunate in that DS disliked school and is more than ready for the move to college. It’s much harder if they are desperate to stay at school with friends.

I would have supported DD if he’d wanted to do A levels but I didn’t really see the value as he would likely end up with 3 low grade results and then what would he do with that. He worked really hard for GCSEs and essentially got what he is intellectually capable of. I can’t imagine him suddenly turning it around at A level.

Having said all that, given they get 3 years of funding, there’s no harm in trying A levels and swapping to something else if it doesn’t work out.

to put it in context I didn’t get very good GCSEs (mostly B and Cs but some Ds and E) but at A level and sixth form FE college I thrived the teaching was great quality and everyone wanted to be there. I choose A levels that subjects I loved and I got AAB. I thrived there
i ended up with a 2:1 in History from a RG uni
i did get Cs In maths and science and A at English at GCSE.
my point is that he may thrive in that environment

I am guessing the BTEC is business and alevels in criminology and law? I don’t know much about criminology but law and business are pretty heavy going and most schools would require a strong set of grades including maths to do these. Is there potential to drop to two Alevels or 1 BTEC and 1 alevel along side some resits?

The OP said business A level. Criminology will be the BTec.

Yeh the Btec will be criminology (a WJEC L3) as there's no A level AFAIK.

Law and business A,level. A thought op - have you looked with him at a past paoer? To see the kind of thing expected? It might inspire him or scare him.off....

Personally I would let him try, fail and learn on his own. Unless there is a dramatic change he will fail his first year anyway so will be unable to continue to the second year so I agree with his dad in that it’s a lesson he needs to learn for himself really, then he can never hold it against you for not letting him try & in all honesty it doesn’t make much difference in the grand scheme of things whether he goes to college now or wastes a year at sixth form then starts college.