Year 12 - 2025/2026: Here we go again!

[QueenMabby]

A new thread for the new school and college year. A friendly thread for parents of those going into year 12 in September 2025.

He doesn't have to do four per se, but he does if he wants to do further maths. That is seen as the 'extra' and if he drops to three then he would be expected to drop further maths. So, we'd still have to find the other A level either way. But, he's not going to drop further maths because maths is his thing... so its almost like a hunt for a fourth that requires the 'least effort' to not disrupt his maths, further maths and physics.

@mojobrojo can he ask to do a trial lesson in both history and economics ? I actually think not writing much is not a bad thing as long as what is on paper is good quality .

@TheyNotLikeUs i have an automatic small EV which is very fast 0-60 so id be reluctant to give DS that power to trip himself up with just yet ! I’ve downloaded the Veygo app though and in due course will take him out in my car . I did put my dad’s car into a newly planted tree when I was 17 so I do have first hand experience of what could go wrong … DS1 is just as stubborn as I was at that age

@mojobrojo is FM timetabled with a full set of lessons? In DS2's year at his school sixth form it was, for the first time - previously it had been kind of an add-on. So when someone in DD's year (2 years older) too maths, FM, phys and chem and wanted to drop chem, they allowed it (and told him not to shout about it!) and it left him with loads of frees.

But in DS2's year (2019 start) as I say, it was a full timetable, so anyone doign FM as a fourth had a heavy schedule – and as such it was not an issue if they dropped something else.
ETA so what I mean is, if he hates econ, not the end of the world perhaps if he asks to drop it in a year's time?

Just to pick up in this: If he has his main three then getting a B int he 4th subject will be more than fine – my understanding (happy to be corrected) is that while no uni is bothered about four A levels (as in, there is no need or advantage in doing four), if a candidate takes four, they will have an offer based on those four rather than the best three? As I say, happy to be wrong on that.

DC did 4 including further maths and offers were based on 3 with specific grade in maths. One University made an alternative offer if a B was achieved in Further maths but 3 was also fine. I think Imperial and some Cambridge colleges may make offers on all 4 for some subjects where all 4 subjects are relevant to the degree.

Yes essentially you are right, some universities for specific courses do reduce entry requirements if you do a 4th A-level and some people I know got this. Also sometimes you can get an offer for all 4 but it depends - often people just get the three so A-star,A,A and thats it. However sometimes you may need that and you may also need an A-star in maths so if you get A-star, A,A, B but the B was in maths then you may have issues. They'll be a mix of offers for 3 and offers for 4, most of the time they'll take your 3 best grades, along as that contains a specific grade for a subject if that's needed.

I did 4 because I wanted to learn them all wanted to develop all those skills and didn't have one I saw as my '4th' but I would say that enjoyment and learning for the sake of it can be valuable in of itself. Realistically he'll likely get a B as his lowest grade, which means he'll be absolutely fine as a B is a good grade and learning something that he might use later or use to get into a certain field will never harm him.

Probably not because they are timetabled at the same time as chemistry. He's just messaged me to say he's been told that he has to decide today!

Get him to talk to teachers of both subjects and also anyone doing them, particularly Y13 as they'll know more. Get him to review the specifications and see what he'll have to do, especially about the History NEA. Sometimes you can choose anything other times schools do the same topic etc, it's a lot of work and so I'd look into that.

if a candidate takes four, they will have an offer based on those four rather than the best three? As I say, happy to be wrong on that.

Some of the Uni DS applied to seem to give very complex offers - he had welsh bacc as well as further maths. If not step one then go and see if met step two offer - I think one offer had 4 or five different combinations mentioned.

He tended to look at headline bit which was usually three grades wanted from main three subjects - not including further maths/welsh bacc.

I would have thoiught economics sound like best fit - but I'd suggest he grabs the relevant teachers and checks with them what they think.

@clary Further maths is extra on the timetable, but not a full subject's worth. I think they have about 35 lessons across a two week block, whereas all others have about 26 lessons. What complicates it further is that they take maths at the end of year 12, and then further maths in year 13. So dropping the elusive '4th A level' isn't really an option because some universities offer based upon three subjects at the same sitting and it would leave him only doing two in year 13. I assume this is a key reason why the school view further maths as an 'extra'.

@TheLivelyViper The universities he's got at the top of his list seem to give a slightly lower offer for their maths-based degrees if you've got further maths as well. So, one definitely says AAB with minimum A in maths but goes as low as ABB if doing further maths too. Hopefully, because he does maths at the end of year 12, he'll have the A/A in that secured when he's applying. But, if they do insist on the offer being based on three A levels all from one sitting then this elusive 4th A level comes into play.

Latest text message suggests he's definite about dropping chemistry, he's very unsure about economics and he's swaying towards history... but he's going to try and find a history teacher at lunch to discuss. The drama continues....

Ah I see @mojobrojo that complicates it. I guess those not taking FM are in a separate group altogether. In DS2's year only about five people took FM so that arrangement would not have flown!

Yes I think what I am saying is, while a B is a great grade, if his other grades will probably be A or A star, is he better to have Astar AA – or will Astar AAB give him access tp the same offers? esp if the B is not in maths for a maths degree. I mean it should but it is worth looking at for sure.

Right that does complicate it I guess, the 4th A-level will likely come into play more than. Although it may be different as I've heard many schools do the maths at the end of Y12 and FM at the end of Y13. So perhaps there's an arrangement of universities making exceptions? I really don't know at all but perhaps talking to his teachers they'll likely know. A B as a minimum in his 4th one will likely be fine, and he seems very likely to get even higher.

It sounds a tough decision, and not helpful having school pressuring for a decision. My DS is taking the same subjects, and sounds similar in that maths and physics are his passion ones, chemistry was one he is good at and didn’t really have anything else he wanted to take, though thankfully he seems happy with it.
Taking maths in year 12 does add to the complications too as it puts more pressure on the grade for the 4th subject. Hope speaking to the history teacher helps

Oxford university's website says that for maths-based degrees they explicitly say that they will take the year 12 maths as one of the three and then make an offer based on the completion of two more in year 13 (but I suspect they know most will take three more). LSE's website says that maths, FM and one other is okay for SOME of their degrees but for others it is not competitive enough and they expect maths, FM and two others (but don't make any reference to the y12/13 issue). He isn't aiming for either of these institutions (wants to stay in the north) but it's interesting to see how they differ.

I really don’t understand why further maths is treated like this by some schools. It is a perfectly adequate 3rd subject, if anything more difficult than others and I see no advantage in taking maths in y12. As ds is a mathematician we immediately ruled out the one school who took this attitude. He is doing 4 this year but will more than likely drop to 3 for y13.

Not read further yes but I am guessing football wins (but I have a small sample of Little and Dad)

@mojobrojo hope pressured decision is the right one

he sounds clued up so I guess it’s just which one he likes

@mojobrojo fingers crossed he’s come home happy about his choice. Maths, FM and Physics all support each other nicely and will be taxing enough. Economics is a bit mathsy but it’ll be a break compared to the rest! There’s really not much writing per se but enough to engage the otherside of his brain perhaps - certainly nothing like history. Either way, here’s hoping he’s happy with his decision. DD1 did both Econ, maths & chem and found the former a breeze - less so chemistry!

DD3 had her first history lesson today - it was ‘fine’ apparently. She has a test on Friday so has a lot of catching up to do ready for that. Think she’s happy with her swap. Hard to tell as a tadge subdued this afternoon. Her hamster died last night so I’m not sure if it’s that or just general teen ‘can’t be arsed to talk to you’.

@mojobrojo what has he decided? It is really hard when that 4th option has very limited choices on offer. When DD decided she wanted to change from politics to something else, teacher choice had a big impact on what she decided. She ended up leaning towards the subject she was more interested in, but had done slightly less well at at GCSE (both 9s though). I hope he is feeling positive about his choice. DD also opted for History and she is finding it really interesting (so far). But she is also doing economics (and maths and FM).

After all the fuss DD created about her EPQ and viruses/biology she's decided today on deadline day to do it about Alexander Hamilton.
Apparently school are very happy about this and I know I don't have any say so I'll just have to let her get on with it.
I think it's around if he was as good as he is portrayed in the musical and is Aron Burr as bad as he was made out to be

@NotDonna @phyllidafosset the deliberations continued once he was home. I left work early so we could talk it all through and so he could email the deputy head before 5:30. We looked at all the options - including changing maths or physics groups to free up more options. But he wasn’t prepared to swap the teachers for either of those so we were back to the same selection. The history teacher combo didn’t enthuse him, nor did the amount of reading he’d have to do, although he thinks the topics would be interesting. So… for now he’s requested the swap to economics. The chemistry teacher did say that he could come back if, after a couple of economics classes, he realised he’d made a big mistake! I’m not sure he’s happy about the choice, more resigned to it. He will have two good friends in the economics class though so that will help.

Meanwhile, DH has emailed the admissions team at his likely top choice uni to see if an offer would include maths done in Y12, rather than being the three he does in Y13. Both Oxford and Cambridge make an offer including the Y12 maths just as long as you do sit three in Y13 to prove you can handle the workload. So, if Oxbridge do it then I’d assume the Russell group unis of the north do too, but we’d like the piece of mind of knowing for sure.

@mojobrojosorry probably missed it but are you sure they sit maths at end of year 12 or just do the content. I’m also hopeful the school wouldn’t do anything to disadvantage the students? Im impressed your DS has an idea what and where he wants to study!

Yes - they definitely sit maths at the end of Y12 if they do FM too. That is why the school insist they have to do 4 A levels if they do FM so that they’ve still got three in Y13, so they can meet the ‘three in one sitting’ requirement of many universities. Apparently it’s relatively common so I assume universities are wise to it.

Ah ok. Or to ensure that FM is kept as the 4th Alevel and another subject can’t be dropped. Would explain why DS’s school does maths in year 13 whilst all the content in year 12. Interesting this was the first year they did FM this way (normal maths stream and FM stream for those doing both). And they got 25% A* in maths (not just from the FM stream). I think the FM in year 13 helped the normal maths seem doable so has its advantages to do it at the same time.

Should have said DS is at a state school, some did FM as the 3rd alevel.