What’s next for my music loving, caring, school year captain?

[Plantymcplantface]

DD is 14 and about to do GCSE options. She is top set for all subjects but mostly enjoys music, drama, english and sciences. Predicted 7-9 in all subjects currently. Grade 4 instrument and a natural performer. She is a very caring and intuitive person and a natural organizer and good team player.

Would really appreciate any insight or ideas of next steps for A-Level/Uni or careers…🙏🏻

Is she about to choose her options do you mean? Are you (is she) wondering what she should choose?

Tbh she won't have that much choice. The key thing is not to drop things she needs a GCSE in to take further – this would include some compulsories so that's not an issue, and also things like MFL. She may find, depending on school compulsories (a lot of schools still push ebacc) that she just has a couple of actual choices.

What is she thinking of taking? It's early in a way to think about A level and uni, yet in another way it's a good idea – so you can avoid closing any doors.

So from your OP she could choose music and drama as options and would then keep open doors for all the things you mention she enjoys.

She may find her love for science grows, or diminishes, over the GCSE years. Ditto drama, or geography, or German. A levels can include new subjects such as psychology, sociology, economics, gov/pol. The same for uni – there are lots of options beyond just a degree in physics or history. It's worth having a browse on a website like Unifrog.

I would encourage all three sciences so as not to limit options later. Get her to discuss the music syllabus with the teacher. DS took music and regretted it as it killed the joy and made him focus on things he didn't love. He was much happier just playing keyboard instruments than studying music theory and composing in a style that he had no interest in. It's also quite time consuming, like art.

Great that she loves English - it's compulsory anyway but so undervalued as training for critical and analytical thinking.

Drama could be fun but check with previous students how much time it takes up - some subjects eat into free time and drama may be one of them. That's great if you love it above all else but not if you are trying to lead quite a busy varied life.

Re A levels and Uni - DS's brilliantly talented piano teacher told him she practised piano for two hours before music classes and lectures and then for three hours each evening. All to be teaching junior school children how to scrape through grade 3. I wouldn't recommend it as a uni subject.

The thing is with GCSE music is that there is a big focus on composition (also at A level) which doesn’t really come up so much with music grades and music theory exams as I understand it from DD (tho she took the old spec GCSE). So if you might want to take A level music, the GCSE may be a good plan.

I agree tho that a music degree is far from being a route to fame, or indeed fortune.

Everyone has to take all three sciences btw – and if that's as dual award or “double” then that’s fine for A level. Single sciences or “triple” may be offered as an option or it may be only done by top sets, but if it’s not available for whatever reason there is no issue with taking double and pursuing science post-16.

Wrt drama, it depends what your group is like more than a lot of GCSE choices as there is so much group work. Ofc you cannot know this in advance. DD had an amazing group and it was her favourite GCSE as in she loved the lessons – tho she didn’t take it for A level. But a friend had a different group and really struggled with people not wanting to rehearse.

Thanks everyone this is great and lots to consider. Think we may very much encourage triple science and English with a view to perhaps keeping A-Level options open. Although I admit I am biased as I have an English degree!

Don’t suppose anyone has older DC that have similar interests and would like to share stories of career choices post uni?

Th is us a somewhat narrow view of what you can do with a music degree 🤦‍♀️

That's true, it is a narrow view. But I see how very hard musicians work, how talented they are, just to scrape a living. The friends of mine who are successful - as in - earn as much as an average middle manager - work their socks off, and everything they do is part time and piecemeal. It could be a very exciting and fun life but I think it is massively undervalued, and for that reason I'd want to steer a child away from it, as they can still get huge pleasure from being a talented amateur musician without that pressure.

Grade 4 at 14 probably means she’s not looking at going into music as a career, so I’d encourage her not to do that at A level as it’s very time-consuming, GCSE would be fine if she has a spare option slot and wants to, but it wouldn’t be one of my priorities.

She has to take English lit and lang and all three sciences anyway so A level options for those will be kept open. If she enjoys science of course ten triple is a good shout. So it’s really about her option choices – depending on the school and what subjects it mandates she may get to choose 4 (unlikely) 3, 2 or even just one.

Friend of DD's btw took music GCSE and A level (she was grade 8 by year 12 IIRC) and went to the RCM in London. She has now graduated and is looking for a career as a starving musician :) what she would love is to play in orchestras but that's a really tough gig.

@SereneCapybara
There's a difference between studying music at uni (which you were advising against) and actually going into the profession. One doesn't necessarily have to lead to the other, you might just as well advise someone not to study English because writers are poorly paid, or history because working in a museum is boring, or philosophy because the pay scale for philosophers is a bit shit.

(Anyway some people do actually enjoy playing their instrument and teaching junior school children, the money is not always the most important thing. I know a few comfortably off but unhappy and unfulfilled people who dislike their job and wish they were doing something creative instead. Weekly orchestra practice or whatever is not at all the same as living and working in a creative industry, if that's your thing.)

You are right. It was quite a knee jerk reaction from me. I suppose I'd worry that music is so specific (whereas music graduates are probably far more aware of the transferrable skills). But English is not an equivalent subject. English is a generalist subject not a specialised one. With it you can go into research, advertising, marketing, publicity, political speechwriting, business writing, journalism, publishing in print or online, editing, proofreading, AI, gaming, TV, film as well as being a writer or teacher.

But I was being unfair. The musicians I know (and by chance I know quite a few professional musicians) all love their work. But I do feel sad for DS's piano teacher who is phenomenally talented in every way - as a performer and as a teacher, that she is stuck at home in her front room teaching reluctant tinies to plink plonk through Grade 1. It seems an unjust reward for all that talent.

English is a generalist subject not a specialised one. With it you can go into research, advertising, marketing, publicity, political speechwriting, business writing, journalism, publishing in print or online, editing, proofreading, AI, gaming, TV, film as well as being a writer or teacher.

I would suggest that almost all of these apply to music - certainly academic research, advertising, marketing, publicity, journalism, publishing, editing, proofreading (although it's not called that), AI, gaming, TV and film all need musicians or have a music angle. Plus writing music and teaching. And performing of course, and working for arts companies and charities and record companies, talent management, instrument making / repairing / tuning, music therapy, session work, theatre work, the military, the church, fixing freelancers, sound recording, editing, record producing, dubbing, A+R, running venues and festivals and radio stations and competitions and awards, education projects, accessibility projects, running orchestras, choirs, bands and opera companies, and specialist schools and conservatoires, and music shops, software development, managing tours, working in copyright and other legal / rights areas, designing, manufacturing and selling all the stuff that musicians need. These are all well-trodden paths for music graduates. (Plus all the usual generic postgrad routes into unrelated areas like law conversion, HR, accountancy, civil service, primary teaching, police etc.)

Music is a massive industry in the UK, £7.6 billion in 2023, it supports many, many careers.

My daughter had similar interests but her pathway was more unusual.

She took triple science, music & RE as options. Decided not to do drama but was having extensive dance & drama lessons.

For A levels she took English Lit, RE/Philosophy and got A and A star grades and a Musical Theatre diploma. Worked as a performer/dancer for a few years & has now gone back to uni to study Sports Science so that she can hopefully specialise in biomechanics & work with dancers on injury prevention.

Mu son is currently doing an music degree. Hes at conservatoire so it's more practical than most but he still has to write analytical essays not only on music but on things like the arts in society, they study business modules, technology & sound and lots of other things that are very transferable.

I'm a fan of working backwards, order the Local College prospectuses and a few universities and have a look at their entry requirements.

Then look at the exam boards and at the specification of the subjects that she's interested in and see what topics are actually taught. She might love X because of Y but actually they don't do much Y content at GCSE.

Then it's likely she won't have too much choice anyway due to timetabling.

Triple science should not be essential for A levels as not all schools offer it but it does make life easier if she's heading in that direction.

Creative subjects are MASSIVELY time consuming, I cannot stress that enough, she really, really needs to love it. Students are often required to stay later taken out of other core subjects to finish course work. They often can't do the work in the way they want either they have to follow the syllabus

If she can't do what she wants at GCSE look outside to find other ways she can pursue it.

In terms of outside school she's old enough to volunteer from 14 so that can be a good outlet, my DD works at a charity shop and I pay her £5 an hour, she enjoys it and is often on shift with a couple of much older women in their 70s and 80s which is lovely as she doesn't have exposure to the older generation at home as well as learning work skills. She also does conservation volunteering for her DoE at a local wildlife trust

Such brilliant advice thank you MN Hive 🍷

She won't get much actual choice, so pick what she enjoys most.

My DD is only really interested in music - particularly composition, which she studies outside school. She's utterly sick of the tick box system with GCSE interfering with the creative side and can't wait to escape to music college.

She was G8 at 12 in her first study and is around G5/6 in her other two. It's made it very easy to get top scores in the performance side with no extra work, but she practices 2-3 hours a day anyway. I've heard a lot of complaining from parents whose kids are less obsessed and are actually having to put in a lot of effort to get a piece to the right level.

I think it's a lot less time consuming than art or drama though and only one written paper.

@Plantymcplantface My DD1 did grade 8 Musical theatre and various other voice exams, theory and LAMDA exams. She did drama GCSE but not music. The reason for this was the stellar drama results the school got. When DD2 did drama, only 2 got an A. The rest were A stars. Obviously a while ago but teaching and dc doing the subject mean everything. Both my DDs loved it but were prepared to put effort in. Few did music GCSE as well.

Regarding other subjects, my DDs school required 3 or double award science, English x 2, a MFL, maths, a humanity and an art or technology. So it was broad which gives dc a pretty wide choice at A level.

DD1 always did choral singing as well as musical theatre, and as an adult, still does. The other thing to bear in mind, a music degree can lead to a variety of jobs. One of DDs friends with a music degree is a barrister and one works on music with his well known wife! A DD that DD2 went to school with is now a conductor.

@Plantymcplantface sorry coming to this late my daughter was a natural performer and described as a very talent musician, but at year 9 she had grade 1 recorder and grade 2 clarinet, but this was because she hated the learning to the test. She was forecast similar GCSE results in year 9 ending up with 2 grade9s, 6 grade 8s.
Now aged 21 she is about to graduate from Italia Conti in musical theatre. Having done an OCR in performing arts for sixth form which she got triple D* in.
My point is what does your daughter want to do as she will do best in what she loves - whilst mine was good at science she hated it and it made her miserable channelling her down this route would have been awful.

My DDs were just saying they are glad we guided them to the options they took. Each school is different with the compulsory subjects but as an academiic child she should do English, Maths, Science (if she has any interest or aptitude triple but it's not essential), a language, a humanity (history or geography), an art (so either music or drama in your DDs case). That will keep her options open for A levels.

She can continue music or drama as a hobby, look at the syllabus with her and see what she thinks. My eldest did art which is very coursework heavy, DD2 is doing music. She really enjoyed the composition because she loves playing in orchestras/singing in choirs and has a good sense of how the music is put together. She also loves drama but does that as an evening activity so I don't know anything about the GCSE course.

Forgot to say. Our schools music teaching is a bit shit. There was a very good teacher but he left. The kids that do well at music do a lot outside school. For example DD2 plays two instruments and has singing lessons. She plays in an orchestra and sings in a choir.

As for what my music/drama kid is planning to do at A level? Maths, Chemistry, Biology.

Thanks again all. Some good advice especially about checking the syllabus. Agree she needs to do something she loves and also keep
options open. Deadline for GCSE options form is end of Feb so we will spend some time looking at each. Current secondary school is dire for careers guidance, anyone used any online resources to help guide choices?