Apprenticeship vs normal degrees

[HealingForest]

I'm sorry, I don't get this. So a school leaver having finished A levels can do an apprenticeship degree via an employer, and pay nothing for that degree (as it's paid for by the government).

Do they get a BA/Bsc degree at the end of it? If so why pay to go to Uni?

I'm clueless here 😟

The employer pays the tuition fees not the government and it takes 5 years to complete the degree instead of 3, but they also pay a salary to the apprentice too.
However I get the impression that there's not many of them about and they are very competitive. My DS has applied for 10 and has only got to the interview stage for one of them. The UCAS application was a doddle in comparison!

And they earn money while they’re doing it! My DS is doing a degree apprenticeship and is earning decent money for the days he works, while gaining a degree at the same time. Obvs only useful for certain subjects but for him it works really well.

It's a bit confusing. I'm mentoring a lad via my work who has a computer science degree via uni. He's now doing another degree in Dev Ops via my employer.

Literally, what's the point of all the student loans etc required for uni if you can get a degree via an employer?

Because there are only approximately 45000 degree apprenticeships available per year, and almost 600000 university places

They are great if you can get one - but the competition is intense and they are not available in every subject so depends what they want to do

Dd started hers in September and she will take 4 years to get a BSc hons compared to 3 years if done at uni full time

But yes - her employer pays for all her uni fees (with govt subsidies) and a full time salary with guaranteed increases for the 4 years.

Standard is 80% work & 20% study. On average she does 5-6 weeks at work, then a week of university (mostly online, but they cover accommodation & travel when it's not) There are 10 assignments and an EPA to complete over the 4 years

Degree apprenticeships are very competitive (so not everyone can get them), in a limited range of subjects, you miss out on some of the social aspects of university, and you may be be be tied to the employer initially.

It can be a great option, but it isn't available or suitable for all.

In 2022/23 approx 1 million students enrolled on undergraduate degrees in UK Universities over that same period around 45,00 degree apprenticeships were offered.

My DS is doing a degree apprenticeship. It was a multi stage application process, he took exams and had 2 interviews and also psychometric testing.

It hugely competitive, he works full time hours with some weeks attending University but also self directed study. So he works a 40 hour week and then has to study. The students in the dept I worked in had around 6 contact hours per week and then self directed study. DH was in a STEM dept, they had 20 contact hours per week and self directed study.

The employer pays, it’s available in some vocational subjects only. I was delighted when he was accepted as zero student debt and now in his final year he is already on 34k PA. He had 3 decent work references at age 20 and a great ref from being in air cadets. all A grades at A level they were not fancy jobs but they showed he could really graft.

@HealingForest There are various issues here:

Some degrees cannot be apprenticeships, eg History, MFLs etc. As a result degrees offered to apprentices are vocational and directly allied to business. The 17-18 year old doesn’t always know what they want. Their education at uni could be a lot more academic and we need these people too,

There is huge competition for them. Only around 10,000 schools leavers get degree apprenticeships every year. That’s more than a few years ago when it was barely 4,000. You might like to think why this is. You have one answer, they are given to existing employees. Often to get a masters degree or a second bachelors degree. Employers back who they have already recruited making it very competitive for school leavers.

350,000 dc by contrast as going to uni every year. If they could get an employer to pay for economics degree at LSE or a Law degree at Oxford, they probably would. At the moment it’s not possible, as far as I know.

Then there’s the applications. Some DC make loads of them and get nothing. What do you do if there’s no suitable apprenticeship near you? No student loan but can DC afford to live away from home? So what do people not living near apprentice employers do?

Some degrees offered to apprentices are not at great unis. Some are offering, say, a BEng degree at a local low rated uni but the apprentice could get a far better degree (MEng) at a top 10 uni if they were a standard student. What should they do? More money now or more money later when fully qualified much more quickly?

Top quality apprenticeships are so difficult to get, many DC have to take uni. Whether existing employees should get so many apprenticeships is debatable. I think the government is looking at this because at the moment the apprenticeship is not a realistic proposition or possibility for the vast majority so university is still the main route to a degree by a long way.

Also the majority are for science or business. Lots of dc wanting standard academic subjects which are not directly feeding business or sciences are not available.

a fair amount of degree apprenticeships are offered internally to upskill existing staff rather than being available for 18 year olds - so the 45k number isn’t a true representation

Yes the apprentice leaves with a full BA or Bsc but no debt. They are hard work for the apprentice as they work alongside study. They are really competitive but very worth it. I teach on one and my students are so committed it is impressive.

@AelinAG It’s around 10,000 school leavers so the vast majority of degree apprenticeships don’t go to school leavers. A few years ago it was less than 4,000 so it’s getting better. So many firms use them for existing employees, not new ones. So it’s for people who have proved themselves. 350,000 to uni and 10,000 on apprenticeships shows the problems and competition. .