Further Maths A Level

[Bluebird23]

Hi,

My DC (Y12) is currently studying four A Levels - maths, chemistry, biology and further maths.

FM is AS Level in Y12 and student / college can decide whether suitable to continue with full A Level in Y13.

Based on GCSE results A Level MEG grades are A* in all 4 subjects.
At the moment DC is achieving a comfortable grade A or higher in fm, chemistry and biology assessments, but only just about scraping an A in A Level maths assessments. DC has mentioned that A Level maths is taking a bit of a back seat at the moment due to focusing on other 3 subjects and lack of time. Also has a PT job.

DC has now decided not to pursue a maths degree at University, which was the reason why further maths was advised and selected. They're pretty sure they now wish to apply for either Chemistry, Biochemistry, Biomedical.

I've advised DC to sit the fm AS Level exam in May and not continue with the subject in Y13 to concentrate on other 3 A Levels, however college are advising as they predict / on track for A* in fm this could be very beneficial for university applications for a chemistry degree and DC should think carefully about not continuing with the subject.

I've checked target University entrance requirements for chemistry etc and haven't noted any requirement or preference for fm.
Target Universities are likely to be 5 from UCL, Bath, Manchester, Sheffield, York, Nottingham, Durham.

I appreciate the published requirements are a minimum and I wondered if anybody had any experience of the above mentioned degrees / universities who could share any advice on whether fm A Level will help DCs application or if it would be wise to have fm A Level for a chemistry degree please?

Many thanks in advance.

OP, I don't know about chemistry, but DS is currently applying for physics with three A levels (predicted grades), of which one is FM. He applied last week and has two offers so far, including from one in your list.
This time last year he was doing four A levels and an EPQ, but dropped one A level last January because of the time he was spending on FM. More recently he's dropped his EPQ. FM is hard and time consuming and gets even more so in year 13.

You are correct that no Chem, Biochem or Biomed course requires or prefers FM. In fact, very few require Maths (Oxbridge, Imperial, Durham, some Scottish unis, I think).

A relatively small number of high achieving students might have FM for some competitive entry courses but that is not the same thing as it being preferred. Indeed, in the summer of 2024, almost 17,000 18 years sat Chem, Bio and Maths; of these fewer than 900 sat Chem, Bio, Maths and FM.

U of Bath gives a lower Chem offer, for example, if you secure a B in FM as a fourth subject (ABBB vs AAB). However, if I remember correctly, Durham expects AstarAA and has no requirement for FM, so it would be a pity to miss an Astar in at least one subject if you have spread yourself too thin by taking FM.

I have DC who have taken Maths and FM and PGs could vary a lot in Y12, depending on what was being studied and assessed. Someone who does not relish Mechanics, and studied this as an early Y12 module, may not score well and this might be used on a rather crude line basis to anticipate PGs for the end of Y13. Obviously it all becomes a lot more finessed as you have exposure to more of the syllabus.

Maths and FM do need to be supported by practice and Chem can become more intense as you move into Y13, so time management is key. It might be worth focusing on this before taking a decision about FM.

With regards the College, I tend to deal with those kinds of situations with a polite 'show me your evidence to back your assertion'.

My DC changed their mind and decided to apply for medicine.

He dropped further maths in order to concentrate his time on getting extremely good results in his three a levrls - maths bio chem.

Time management becomes a major problem in year 13 and four a levels plus a part time job is a lot.

Thank you for taking the time to respond, it is much appreciated.
It's a relief to know we've not missed anything when checking the target university entry requirements. Myself and DH didn't go to university, so we worry in case there's something more nuanced that we're unaware of.

DCs preference (and ours) is to complete the FM AS Level exam in May, and then focus on maths, chemistry and biology to try and secure the best grades possible in the 3 subjects. They are very comitted to studies, but also want to keep their part time job (12 hours per week)' and being honest they will need to save towards liviing cost at University. I'll prep them to talk to college again about their decision and explaining their reasons.

Thanks again and good luck to your DCs with their A Levels / Degrees

My DD sat exactly these 4 A levels in 2024 and applied for chemistry or Natural Sciences. She got all 5 offers at competitive unis. FM definitely is an advantage in terms of getting offers, I think. It does become a lot harder in Y13 and I think it is true that for chemistry degrees, FM is not needed but were you to apply to the most competitive unis, I would consider keeping it.

Look at how maths-heavy the actual courses are. One advantage of FM is that you get taught the maths a little earlier so are ahead at Uni on that.

Maths lectures for non-maths students at Uni can vary in quality…

Given your DC works, it is sensible to plan ahead with regards Open Days as most (but not all) are on Saturdays, meaning your DC may need to husband limited holiday allowance carefully and request holiday as soon as unis publish 2025 dates (not the same thing as open them for booking). Open Days are useful for Chem etc as you get to see inside the labs, which can vary.

Mine did some in June as well as the Autumn to spread it out and maximise chances of being given time off. Where Open Day attendance was not possible, they visited the location informally in the holidays (though obviously could not tour labs etc) and tended to do this solo with 16-17 railcard, to keep cumulative costs down and build independence (though they may want you to go along too for some/all and 'Two Together' railcard can help here).

It is also worth your DC thinking about whether and how they will continue working alongside study whilst at uni. Chem courses generally have very good student satisfaction rates as there is high lab-based contact time; the consequence is that time for term-time paid work is more limited. Would your DC's employer allow temporary transfer between home location and uni location or at least allow vacation only contract at home location? Smaller locations like Durham and Bath will have fewer opportunities than, say Manchester and the other big cities. This should not be a primary factor but still one to consider in the mix; obviously accommodation costs and how they can vary widely by region is another, probably more crucial, point to note.

You have not mentioned U of Birmingham, which has recently upgraded its molecular science facilities, has good scores for timely feedback from staff etc, unusually is a clearly defined campus in a city location and obviously has a large city centre on the doorstep.

He’s getting A in further maths but not maths now, is that right?

I did notice that when my DC did A levels, loads of the kids at his grammar got all A or A across the board , but the ones who did further maths, tended to get A in maths. This was purely anecdotal.

They can't put FM as a requirement, as not all schools offer it. But if your school did offer it and you didn't take it, they expect it - was the feedback from our open days. However, that was for a maths based course so if she's changed ideas now, I imagine it's better to do well in the subjects she wants. Chemistry gets full on in Y13.

DD did FM and is doing Natural Sciences, and is bored with the maths content as it's all stuff she did in FM.

Oh yes, this was true of my DD. A in Maths, A* in FM. I think it's because they get more control over the modules they do, so they can drop the less strong areas.