Apprenticeships

[SlinkyDog1]

My DS is in year 13, studying A Levels, and would prefer to go down the apprenticeship route rather than university and he has been diligently applying for apprenticeships but has started to get rejection emails back. On Thursday he received two rejection emails in one evening. For the rejections that he received this week were applications he worked really hard on, and he felt quite positive that he had good answers and may have done enough to be invited through to the next round, but now he’s feeling quite deflated by it all (as am I).

I feel that my DS has a good CV (he has two part-time jobs so shows a good work ethic) and has good GCSE results and predicted A Level grades too. I appreciate that apprenticeships are hard to get as they are so popular and I was wondering if anyone had any positive stories of their DC getting apprenticeships eventually?

I run an apprenticeship scheme for our company and it’s very competitive as we fund a degree. What style apprenticeships are they applying for? What type of business is he applying for?

DS applied for well over 20, possibly closer to 30. He got a few no's, a lot of interviews but got turned down at a lot different stages - resilience is definitely required! I always said to him even if he got nothing this is an excellent demonstration of just how difficult it is to get a job - and how you will need to make sure at university that you stand out from the crowd. That means a lot of impressive extra curriculars beyond your course - you can't just come out with a 2:1 and think you'll walk into a job, you have to stand out.

I made sure during Yr 12/13 that ds got involved in relevant volunteering and joined relevant school clubs. He also did a lot of MOOCs, Youtube tutorials. designed his own stuff, made his own websites of his interests etc all relevant to what he wanted to do. This was all important to show a real interest in his subject I think. Also be clear why you want to join that company - how your ethics align with the companies ethics. You need to have researched them well.

At interview, for the really highly sought after apprenticeships we found that many of the applicants were very confident, polished, likely to be used to public speaking, private school applicants. We could tell as they were all in their posh school blazers, turning up in their parents very expensive cars. DS didn't really stand much chance bless him!

He found at interview that be able to talk about working as part of a team almost always came up, times he overcame a problem and times he demonstrated x, y or z. He always preferred interviews where he had the opportunity to demonstrate his skills though rather than just personality type and those were where he did far better. He certainly found though that coming up with a lot of different possible questions and thinking about/writing how you'd answer them helped and the more interviews he did the more used to doing them he got (and better at them).

Have you looked at DS's CV and cover letters/question answers? Is he using a template and have an impressive looking CV? I would recommend looking it all over and giving him some hints and tips on how to play everything up and draw attention to him being a hard worker, team player, self starter etc. Kids often aren't used to writing in such a formal way and drawing out the skills they've learned or demonstrated from what they've done. Make it all as professional as possible.

DS got his apprenticeship around 7 months after he first started applying and absolutely loves it. So don't give up! Apply to loads, be prepared to move (ds is in a shared house) and give him as much help as you can.

Not surprised. They are more competitive than many top Uni degrees. Tell us more about what area, what subject, what he's tried already, what his A'level subjects are, and we might be able to help. Encourage him to keep on going, he'll get there!

What type of role/sector is he trying for? The NHS have over 350 available for school leavers to much more senior posts. Lots are not front line clinical either.
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/career-planning/study-and-training/nhs-apprenticeships

Knock backs during the application process are always tough. Good on your DS for applying. Apprenticeships at all levels attract interest, particularly those at degree level (L5-7). For every 100 18 year olds going to university, only 2 18 year olds start a degree level apprenticeship. The applicant to offer ratio can be 100:1, so tougher than Oxbridge. However, that is not a reason to not apply but is a reason to be realistic and have a plan B running in parallel.

If your son is getting rejections at the earlier stages, eg situational judgement test, this could be that the organisation does not think his values align with theirs. My DC found a couple of organisations who had rejected them at this stage later added them back in; this suggests their filter was too aggressive or misaligned to what they actually were looking for; so don't take rejections to heart too much.

If the rejections are coming at the next stage, then video technique may be an issue and my DC found practising self-recording on their phones and playing back helped them get used to this (as well as putting a photo of a friendly human face next to the laptop camera to make it all less unnatural!).

Ultimately, as PP have said, your DS needs to have clear reasons for wanting to chose the apprenticeship route and the particular career on offer. At time of interview, the organisation is making a big bet on a 17 year old. Will they last the course literally and metaphorically or will the salary, establishment and training costs have been wasted at some point down the line?

Autumn term of Y13 is tough, there is a lot going on and schools are often blissfully unaware of the challenges faced by apprenticeship applicants. Even if your son is not successful this time, he can reapply in the next cycle; or, even if he does choose to go to uni, the experience gained at this stage will stand him in good stead when applying for placements as the process is exactly the same; he will be a step ahead.

Ultimately he only needs one offer, so hang on in there.

Thank you all for your messages and feedback, it is much appreciated.

My DS would like a role in the financial services industry or project management although TBH at 17 he’d be happy to work anywhere where he can work and study and move up the career ladder. I think for some teens they know exactly what they want and can aim for that specific career (I am thinking for those that want to go into medicine, it’s rare that someone just stumbles into medicine, I think it’s a career that has a calling but my son doesn’t have something really specific in mind). I can see him working in an office and he deals with stress and fast paced situations well so I can see him coping with a role that will be demanding.

Thank you for the NHS advice and MOOCs too which I hadn’t thought of and will definitely let him know to look into those suggestions.

Thinking about things, my DS isn’t keen on the video element of the recruitment because he does lack confidence but over time, as he completes more applications, he’s feeling more at ease with the camera being on. And I’ve reminded him that it’s just part of how we work now so he’ll have to get accustomed to it - thank you @PerpetualOptimist for suggesting the friendly photo next to his screen.

He has a sheet that he worked on, and I reviewed, setting out examples of situations that he has worked on showing a time when he worked independently, a time when he worked as a team, a time he dealt with adverse circumstances etc and because of his part-time jobs he has a lot to talk about but he is falling short at the moment. But, as mentioned above, it is highly sought after way of working and he’ll need perseverance and patience to get through it all.

I was feeling disheartened earlier but I know it’s just something we have to go through until something crops up and I’ll have to keep those doubts at the back of my mind and remain positive. I naively thought the stress stopped at GCSEs but of course that was a rookie error and I should remember that we never stop worrying do we 😁

We have an apprentice. Honestly - we had a lot of applications, 50% of which were littered with spelling mistakes. We tried to invite 5 or 6 to interview but without exception the boys didn't answer their phones / emails so we only interviewed two girls.

We are not a big company, we did not have a fancy application process, it is worth looking at smaller companies - chances are competition is much lower and potentially illiterate 🙄

We offered AAT Level 3 which is only 18 months so if it turned out to be not what he wanted that's not a lot of time wasted. Some of the apprenticeships are 4 years which feels like a big commitment if you're not 100% sure it is definitely what you want to do.

Apologies, I want to thank @Jessie1259 and @JC03745 for your advice too on the NHS links, YouTube and MOOCs suggestions, all of which my DS will be looking at this week.

I can imagine that at times some applications aren’t up to scratch and thank you for the advice to look at the more local companies and a shorter course. Part of me does worry that the degree courses are a long stint on top of working in a day job too but I would love my job to actually be in a position to choose 😂.

I am not blowing my son’s trumpet here but he does have good spelling and is articulate so I am hoping that eventually something will crop up. I have drilled into him that he needs to re-read and check everything before it is sent off because he’s not posting on Instragram and it’s a job application - the real deal.

What level apprenticeships is he applying for? Degree apprenticeships are hard to get into - consider Level 4 apprenticeships as well, or even Level 3 apprenticeships if they offer a foot in the door at a preferred company.

My son got an apprenticeship (8 years ago now). In fact, he was offered two.

He wasn't someone who, in Mumsnet terms, should have even got a look in with his row of mainly C grade GCSEs and a BTEC (albeit at the top grades). But he had a passion and spent a lot of his spare time from 14+ learning and improving outside of the box, so to speak, which he did because he was naturally curious not because he wanted application evidence. As well as.this he was working part time as soon as he could in a public facing shop role. So, when it came to being assessed, I think he just clicked with them.because he was able to talk about things with that perspective, he was great at the practical tests, and he had the confidence to do all of this from his shop work.

I never expected him to have any chance but it was what he wanted, he did the applications himself, and was very invested. The applications took him.hours to do and were very directed to the opportunity. I don't think it would have been possible for him to have managed that if he'd applied to a lot. He would have had to have been more generic to actually find the.time.

I think that was the key to his success. Scattering applications like a shotgun might not hit the right target although I can fully understand why he wants to give himself as many chances as possible. He must make sure he is passionate about those he is applying for and can express that in his application.

Not getting one isn't a failure either. They are as rare as hens teeth. A lot of brilliant kids will not get an offer.

Just read your post about work and study.

Apprenticeships are a completely different beast. He should not apply if his main reason is to save student debt. I understand that will always be a factor but he could find he's being offered something he's not really wanting to sign up to.

Differences of my son's experience to his sisters Uni experience...

He had to find his own accommodation. He lived in a professional household because council tax was payable.

He actually lived in a hotel for 2 weeks until he found a room on spare room.

He had to work and study. Long days. Assignments took up a lot of his weekend work.

He did earn a wage so was able to fund his room, food and a car.

There wasn't any provided activities he could attend as he was so busy although after a while the Apprentices sorted socials etc between them however there was no party lifestyle.

He only came home at Christmas as his holidays were the normal working provisions 5.6 weeks ish? And much of that he used to study.

It can be a gruelling process and our DS definitely had to build up resilience to rejections. The worst factor for him was how many of the application forms were obviously driven by keywords or algorithms, so he felt he was getting rejected without ever having a chance to show who he was and the skills he had.

However, after several rounds of (human) interviews and aptitude tests he was offered an Apprenticeship at a Top 3 tech company.
Tell your son to keep his chin up and keep going.
HTH.

I suggest you do a mock interview with him and video him on camera.

I had no idea how much I don't smile and look nervous.

When you watch YouTubers, they smile A LOT and look so friendly. It's a real art. Unfortunately interviews are quite a lot about acting and getting comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Now I know to smile a lot more. It's hard on camera though, much easier face to face, that's why it's important to practice.

he can practice in the mirror. Write out sentences and try saying them out loud. Get good as speaking about your strengths, what you are working through on your weaknesses etc.

Thank you ladies for all very informative posts. My DC is doing BTEC ( year 13) and although enjoying it, it is difficult to process and remember certain information because of neuro divergency and low focus So achieving Pass grades. Hopefully this year results will be better with having to 1-1 support. I don't mind if DC gets Level 3 apprenticeship of choice. Because of neuro divergency there is obsession in certain areas which might help.

@SlinkyDog1

Hi my dd has just been offered an apprenticeship in finance.

What I have learnt is...

They need practise with interviews...if you know he is having an interview- practise with them.

Help them to have some key examples

Practise video himself...

Learn about the company and at this stage they want motivation and being a team player

Some companies give reports after the assessment- maybe read it as well

It is a bit of luck and don't give up- you only need one!

Thank you all so much for your tips and advice.

My son is cracking on and keeping positive. @Jaq27 I know what you mean about the algorithms, it does feel disheartening that a human hasn’t read it and it’s computer saying no but that’s the nature of the beast and he’s cracking on and eventually he’ll be successful.

@PlopSofa thank you for the tips especially smiling on camera - I suffer from the same thing when I am Zoom calls and after catching a glimpse of myself on camera I now make a conscious effort to sit up straight and smile and I do believe that the positive stance affects my projections during the call. That’s definitely something my son needs to improve on is his screen presence and projecting self assurance.

@Feelingstrange2 I am really glad to hear how successful your son has been and he certainly showed lots of resilience in those early stays with finding accommodation and settling in, which is tough at any age but more so as a young person. With regards to costs, I have assured my son that I will help him fund uni if he decides to go and I don’t want to make it all about the costs but he has stated that he’d like to earn money sooner rather than later and his heart has never been in going off to uni although he is keeping his options and still applying through UCAS in case he changes his mind. He’s 17 and doesn’t really know what he wants to go into although he likes the financial services fields - he knows more of what he doesn’t want to do. Also, at this age he doesn’t know what sort of jobs are out there - he’ll look at an apprenticeship and if it sounds interesting and a position where he can work his way up, he’ll apply. There have been many where he says it’s not the right role for him and he hasn’t applied.

@Blubell46 congratulations on your daughter getting her finance apprenticeship, that’s great news.

I am going to suggest to my son that he records himself and watches the video back, he’ll hate it but it needs to be done. I had his parent / teacher meeting this week via Zoom and he did mumble quite a bit and I said afterwards that this is an area of improvement.

I must say, the assessments the companies provide are a double edged sword in my son’s case. The first assessment feedback report said that he needed to work more independently and ask less of his manager and he reflected and changed his approach but the next one said he needed to be more curious and ask his manager more questions 😀.

But it is all a learning curve and he’ll get there eventually and he is feeling more confident as time goes on. He understands that these companies are offering great opportunities and they’ll expect their candidates to put effort into their applications and he’s taking it seriously, it is such a case of cracking on really isn’t it.

I think a lot of it is confidence and enthusiasm
Dd got an apprenticeship at 16 straight after gcses. She took her CV and cover letters round local garage managers.
Her manager told her she was offered the apprenticeship because she had the balls to rock up to the front desk and ask.
Confidence will get your ds a long way, definitely practice the interviews, but if it's something he really wants to do his enthusiasm will come through.

@SlinkyDog1

Practise video is the key...initially dd was looking at the screen rather than the camera when she practised.

Dd did mention the SJ assessment as one company treats it differently to another. I said to her just be yourself and think logically. SJ are hard since they are subjective!

There are a lot of finance apprenticeships out there- UBS, Bank of England have just been released recently...good luck

@SlinkyDog1 My DH was an employer - just retired! They were a medium sized engineering consultancy. I know your DS is not looking for this but they don’t have algorithms! They read applications! What they wanted was no spelling mistakes and someone who actually knew who they were! Award winning engineers with a great portfolio of work. Generic off the shelf applications were not what they wanted. It’s very important to tailor the application in my view.

Also don’t get obsessed with the big players. There are mid sized companies who have human beings reading applications. Good luck with interview practice too. DH would have been amused if anyone had turned up in a school blazer! Most 6th forms, even private ones, don’t have one in the 6th form. He would expect a suit or presentable separates. You need to judge about a tie these days. Always clean shoes and avoid casual ones. Black lace up leather works best. Yes, answering clearly is important and concisely. Do work on this. If really helps if dc is articulate. Good luck!

I thought I’d update my thread and thank everyone who took the time to offer advice and tips which I passed onto my DS.

My DS thankfully secured a degree apprenticeship and he starts the new role in September and for anyone whose DC are looking into apprenticeships, don’t give up because something will crop up but be prepared for the process to take a long time and be prepared for knock backs.

My DS’s application and interview skills definitely improved with practice and as he gained confidence and he’ll no doubt carry those skills into the workplace too. I can see how much he has matured since he started year 13 and he now seems so ready for the workplace.

I think in the end he probably applied for approx 50 positions since last September, had 3 assessment centres / final interviews and was in a fortunate position to have 2 job offers but those offers came at the very end of the process and it did feel, for a while, that the whole thing would continue further into the summer but in the end everything was just fine.

Coincidentally, the company he is joining was one of the first names he put on his list last year when he drew up his application tracker and I think it was meant to be 😊

I forgot to mention, that for whose looking at apprenticeships, the application stages can be time consuming and deadlines often crop up at the same time as coursework or mock exams at sixth form and my advice to students is that they will need to manage their time well to juggle it all.

My DS had two final assessments the week before his A Level exams started with both interviews consisting of presentations and an interview with a small panel and he was under a lot of pressure at the time with revision and interview prep but it was a good learning curve and he learnt a lot as he went along.

@SlinkyDog1 I am so delighted to hear about your DS. He has done so well and I wish him the best of starts in his new position. Good to know in advance about the juggle - that is really tough with clashing deadlines, so a heads-up oon that is good. As you say, really good life stkills.. Can I ask how many hours he's doing in uni / work - how it's all balanced.

Also, does he think his written applications became stronger, or anything he changed as he got more feedback?

Yaaay!! Well done to him. It’s definitely a gruelling process. Hoping he loves his new job!