Portuguese or Italian as a beginner? Which would you choose?

[Owlkiss]

DC is about to start A levels in French and Spanish.

They have to do a timetabled “enrichment” activity 2 hours a week alongside A levels, and school offers beginners language classes as a possibility for this. Those doing a MFL A level are prioritised if classes are oversubscribed.

DC really likes the idea of both Italian and Portuguese (the third possibility is Mandarin).

Any advice about which one to choose would be gratefully received.

We were thinking-

Portuguese is probably more difficult wrt pronunciation, so might be better to do with a teacher, whereas Italian might be easier to pick up by oneself on eg Duolingo.

Italian is slightly easier perhaps, so might be more “fun” and make more progress.

TV programmes etc in Italian are maybe easier to get hold of than in Portuguese.

We are more likely to go to Portugal on holiday as a family, but there is the possibility of a school trip to Rome.

Italian is likely to be more popular (we don’t know this, just guessing), so Portuguese might have a smaller class size, which is DC’s preference.

So neither stands out as the obvious choice. Anything we haven’t thought of?

DC’s current university plan is Linguistics and French.

Portuguese is spoken much more widely around the world than Italian which is mostly only spoken in Italy. Learning Spanish will make learning either of the other languages easier but Portuguese slightly more so I believe. Italian is considered a very romantic language though so that might appeal. It might be worth chatting to the teachers and seeing what they think, also if DC has a particular preference for one teachers style of teaching over the other.

I immediately thought of your first two points!
I did a languages degree (a while ago!) and have learnt both Italian and Portuguese since. (I am competent in holiday Italian and making slow progress on Portuguese Duolingo for a holiday.) I find Italian much easier and also more pleasing than Portuguese, but of course that is personal preference.
One curveball - if they are hoping to do linguistics would it be worth reconsidering Mandarin? The contrast might be interesting/beneficial for them?

Just want to reiterate @danesch 's point that it might be worth reconsidering the Mandarin if DS is keen on linguistics as it would be helpful to have an insight into a language from a completely different family/pitch sensitive etc.

Interesting, hadn’t thought about mandarin from a linguistics perspective, just that there would likely be less opportunity for actually using it.

Though I can’t imagine they will be able to go into much depth really, with 2 hours a week.

I would say in depth at this point doesn’t matter as it’s an enrichment activity. If it’s loved, then the world’s your oyster!

Ah how amazing that he can take two MFL at A level! I love the idea of picking up a third too.

My pref would always be for Italian but not for any logical reason - I just love how it sounds and the country and when people speak it - so beautiful.
Told you it wasn't logical! Portuguese is ofc spoken in Brazil so by a lot! of people. Otoh travel in Italy is probs more likely let's face it.

(I have a little Spanish (about GCSE standard) and less Italian (learned it many years ago). So I sometimes get the two confused, but the same is probs true to Portuguese. Anyway unlikely to be an issue for someone taking A level Spanish!)

Maybe it’s better not to try and overthink it and to just go with gut feeling!

I pointed out Mandarin could be useful for linguistics, but dc wasn’t really enthusiastic. Italian is definitely the “gut feeling” choice.

Portuguese is one of the harder languages to learn for that reason I’d go for Italian (and I speak Portuguese)

Portuguese. If he's already doing Spanish and French, Italian will not be that challenging.

This is what I came on to say. I speak Portuguese and it is HARD!

having learned it to fluent level in my 20s, in the main in terms of use for my career, it’s mostly been extremely coincidental that I get to use it, only 1 time was it a requirement for a contract. Mostly it ticks the box for “second language desirable”

Italian is way way easier! I’m myself on Duolingo atm and actually making enough progress to use it a bit on holiday this year (clearly knowing Portuguese- and therefore GWK of Spanish - helps) but your dc will find this more useful as an enrichment IMO.

don’t get me wrong, I’m proud that I’m fluent (still!) after all these years, but it’s not easy enough to learn in part, it’s largely of little use.

I speak Portuguese and think it would have been much handier if it had been Italian.

The pronunciation in Portuguese can be a bit tricky/ not intuitive.

Italian is a prettier language and I gather a wee bit easier to learn.

Even though I am in Portugal several times a year, the locals (especially those working hospitality) really dislike conversing in Portuguese. They tend to want to practice their English when they see someone who looks like a tourist (I have fair skin and red hair).

I found this different when I holidayed in Italy and France, where the locals seemed to prefer to converse in their language

I have read out the replies to DC, and I think Italian has edged it! Apparently the Spanish teacher encouraged their students to consider Portuguese, French teacher recommended Italian.
There is only one other person doing both French and Spanish for A Level, but DC tells me they are avoiding the decision entirely and choosing basketball as their enrichment activity .

Italian is lovely. Sounds like a good choice!

That's weird, i go to work evetns all the time in Portugal and perhaps its because I stumble across the Brazilian speakers, they are always DELIGHTED to hear me speak 'proper' Portuguese 😀

Well, tbf, I am too, speaking European Portuguese is a bit stressful for Brazilian speakers.

Haha I find the Brazilian accent tricky to understand until I get my ear tuned in!

It's wonderful that your DC's school has such rich language provision!

If their gut feeling is for Italian, I'd go with that as it will help with motivation.

A little plug for Portuguese though - your DC may find that they can make a good stab at reading it already, if their Spanish is decent. I did Portuguese ab initio as one of the languages in my MFL degree (having never studied Spanish), and I can now read and understand Spanish reasonably well, despite never having studied it formally. For someone with a language brain, the similarities in the written form are huge. The spoken form and pronunciation are a different matter!

Portuguese is very similar to Spanish in terms of grammar and vocab but the pronunciation is very different. I speak Portuguese and find I can pretty much read Spanish having never studied it.

Word of warning though- do not do Duolingo Portuguese as it it Brazilian and sounds totally different to European Portuguese. I started with is for 6 months then went to the Algarve and couldn't understand a word!

I found Memrise European Portuguese pretty good for learning the vocab- not so much conversationally, but the best programme I found is Pimsleur. It builds so cleverly. Portuguese is hard though- the pronunciation is not easy at all.

I’m late to this, but it’s still the summer holidays.

Italian all the way. It’s her gut choice. It’s also the language of the Renaissance, of Verdi’s operas and of Dante’s Divine Comedy. Unless she wants to go to Brazil, it is arguably more useful in Europe. Italy has more coastline, more heritage sites, more vineyards, mountains and skiing than Portugal.