Has anyone's DC gone on to a Level 3 apprenticeship after doing A levels or BTEC? Did it lead anywhere beyond that?

[Sunbeckons]

DD has an interview/assessment day for what looks like a great international company for a Bus. admin. apprenticeship level 3. She just finished 6th form. She, at the moment, is not that interested in university but has a deferred place for 2025 should nothing good happen in the next 12 months and she decides to go then.

There were a lack of degree or higher level apprenticeships advertised over the past 12 months. Perhaps due to the economy, but it's hard to know what might happen with opportunities for young people and how fast with the new government. I know level 6 apprenticeships are hard to get at age 18, and even graduates are coming out of uni and taking on level 3 apprenticeships to get experience and a way in to a company. Still, it's hard not to see it as a wasted sideways step and would love to hear some positive motivating stories (or the opposite!) of where a level 3 apprenticeship has led to.

Best case scenario, she likes it and does well and has the opportunity to move onto a level 6 apprenticeship. Alternately, she gets nowhere and so goes to university in two years with more confidence and more business experience. Worst case scenario, there's no scope for development, she remains on low pay but she's got too comfortable with the company and the people to want to move on. I'm basing that fear on the fact she doesn't currently like change!

@Sunbeckons I don’t have direct experience of this but, as you say, degree apprenticeships are difficult to get. The one huge advantage of a degree is changing your mind about what work you actually do want! Business is a massive umbrella. I can see how not having to pay a grad tax is good, but what will she realistically earn on the apprenticeship and what advancement is possible? Is uni right anyway if she doesn’t like change? Yes, grads don’t always get grad level work or great pay. So I would try and work out what the prospects are with this
company.

I do not see how a new government can force firms to create apprenticeships when there are grads around who they don’t have to pay for 3 years whilst at uni and the grad pays their own uni expenses. Some companies are no doubt great but not all.

My DS did a three year level 3 apprenticeship after he had completed his A levels. Had enough UCAS points to go to Uni but didn't feel it was for him. His apprenticeship was not easy to get onto - it is a nationally recognised company. They had over 8000 applications for 30 places. He went through a number of stages, application, aptitude tests, online interview, location visit with in person interview and another exam - it took six months from his application to being given the job. He was offered the apprenticeship and it's the best thing that's ever happened to him. Four years on he has completed it, is now qualified has letters after his name. He has the opportunity to go further but he enjoys the work and is already a higher rate taxpayer. He says he can go further in the future if he wants - but his job in Engineering is in high demand so with his rather large pay packet he's not motivated right now to study more. I wouldn't worry about the Level 3 leading to Level 6, the opportunities that have become available to my DS as a Level 3 apprentice have been amazing.

My company offers level 3&4 apprenticeships which can then turn into them completing a Level 6 DA. There is a ton of benefits to them e.g the earn as you learn piece.

Yes absolutely, DC1 did A Levels, then the company that she did work experience with offered her an apprenticeship. Because of the specialism of the work it had to be a level 3 apprenticeship, which subsequently led on to a degree apprenticeship.

@HappySonHappyMum It’s not really true to say he has an engineering qualification though. That’s not possible at 22. Some other qualification might be but of course those who are CEng or IEng will probably earn more in the long run as they can work anywhere in the world and command very high salaries. I think your DS is unusual to earn so much at 22 with no degree. Most won’t.

Friend's child went from A levels to level 4 apprenticeship to years 2&3 of a degree part-time whilst also working part-time for the same employer. Got a first, still works (back to full-time) with the same employer.

@TizerorFizz Actually he does have a professional engineering qualification. He's had to do a hell of a lot of written work across the three years, lived away from home in the company training centre for a year - not fun during Covid - have final interviews and a viva voce. He has EngTech TMIET after his name, he could move on to IEng and then CEng as next steps if he wanted to and his company would pay for this. What he hadn't realised though in the industry he is working in it's not IEng and CEng that they really need. It's the EngTechs that earn the big bucks because the business can't run without them - they're irreplaceable. He's already been head hunted by two other firms (also nationally known companies) because the apprenticeship scheme he qualified with is sort after but he's holding out for now. The company he works for employs 150,000 people in the UK 10% of which are Engineers - not a small number in my eyes.

I have A Levels, a degree in engineering and am now studying on an apprenticeship to become a mechanic. I’d say do the apprenticeship!

My brother did a level 3 apprenticeship after a-levels, he now pays more tax in a month than I earn, has been head hunted twice and moved his way up quickly. He didn't do any further apprenticeships of any level, didn't need to

I am an Apprenticeship Provider. I know of many who have gone on to higher levels (5/6/7) and flourished via the Apprenticeship route.

@HappySonHappyMum I think there are branches of engineering that doesn’t care about CEng. All levels of engineering need technicians. Not everyone can be a leader. In DHs branch of engineering is much more structured with CEng needed to sign off work, or they could kill people. The technicians don’t design anything. Fortunately for safety it is required that some engineers are fully qualified, Numbers don’t always lead to the best careers.

Honestly @TizerorFizz I was just trying to illustrate to the OP that a Level 3 apprenticeship can lead to big things, that it could give you opportunities that you didn't realise it could. That it's not an inferior option and it might be a springboard to things that you hadn't ever imagined. I didn't expect to be having a pissing contest with someone who sees my DS's journey as less valuable because he's done a Level 3 apprenticeship and hasn't made it to CEng YET. My DS is 22 - he's got a lifetime ahead of him to forge his own path and create a career that is of his own choosing. But right now he's earning good money - most of which he's saving - so he can get himself on the property ladder and have the luxury of making life choices that having a good wage gives you. Life's tough enough for our young people as it is these days so the 'learn and earn' route is ideal for many and I don't think any the less of anybody who chooses that path - I say good on them.

If you are going down the apprenticeship route, especially in a volatile market place, be very careful choosing the company. My friend’s DC is doing a graduate apprenticeship in a very large company. That company has just restructured, made a lot of people redundant and moved a lot of jobs elsewhere. Suddenly the degree apprentices find they are no longing able to rotate departments, and the local university centre that trains them in the academic side is looking to its future too as the company led the local market in that specialism. My friend’s DC was lucky in get stuck in an interesting and varied department but others are now unable to rotate out of departments that don’t interest them.

Thanks for everyone's input.

On paper it looks like a company who develop their staff. I can see this from what they promise, from inside knowledge from a friend who works there and from linkedin profiles of current high up employees. The level 3 apprenticeship involves rotations to find a young persons best fit. It's a future-proofed industry. Those are all the good points.

Despite many people going on to earn big salaries without a degree, I'm keen for her to get a degree in the end. What if she wants to move abroad? What if she wants to change careers in future? What if minimum requirements for a certain job role change in 20 years time? I know plenty of people who didn't go to uni., moved up quickly through their industries and are now stuck in those industries. And business admin is a bit wishy washy compared to computing, engineering, accounting etc... business admin could lead to lots of jobs which don't need a degree.

Thanks for sharing perspectives. I think if she's offered a role she'll just need to clarify potential next steps. They've not offered apprenticeships at this location or this job role before so there's no established scheme yet.

@Sloejelly I agree that not all is rosy and many won’t get anywhere near £42,000 pa as a 22 year old technician. Even with overtime. It’s rare. Eyes open works best.

Business is ok if the qualifications are portable. Eg HR. So investigate thoroughly.

Friend’s DC is at a very large national company that will lead to a sought after degree (degree apprenticeship). My point was more a warning about the company itself, with business decisions impacting on your experience/qualification. Unlike universities where students of the customers, businesses are focused elsewhere.

I have a DC for whom a level 3 apprenticeship may be appropriate - precisely because they won’t be getting a degree. I am hoping that many employees won’t just be recruiting future high fliers by this route, but will also be looking to recruit the steady workers. The sort of steady employees who will do a relatively basic job well and continue in the same job for years.

@Sloejelly I don’t think they will. A technician isn’t a degree holder, usually. Companies need all sorts but it’s very difficult to judge what they might need to do regarding business decisions. This is a risk but getting a degree is an expense. A degree is a known outcome but an apprenticeship with limited outcomes might not be great for mobility between employers.

Friend’s DC will get a degree as long as they pass their course - that is what degree apprenticeships are. He attends university a couple of days a week.

https://www.ucas.com/apprenticeships/degree-apprenticeships

@Sloejelly I was really referring to the steady employee who might not want a degree. Companies need all sorts of employees. Rarely just degree holders.

I think for the longer route - being paid and getting experience at the same time is the bonus - you also come out without the debt - I think its a win all round to be honest

@RB68 That depends on the degree and where it’s from. Some degrees are always sought going to trump others and dc catch up very quickly. 10 years on, some degree holders will be earning more.

Yes My son did a 4 year apprenticeship and is now a qualified electrician.
No debt and is on a very good salary.

I think the which degree will change as we go forward and actually that might be more about the person than the degree - lots of factors at play and depends if the aim is to get a degree, job you want and be debt free and earning good money or just be the Oxford first but with accompanying debt and possibly a great job in 10 yrs. I think that is a bit picky and OK if you can front the debt as a family - for the majority that is not a possibility and the apprenticeship alternative is a good route

My son is just about to start his third year as a aerospace engineer apprentice. His pay will be round £24k rising again to £27k in his fourth and final year. After that he can gain full time employment with the company.

Once he has completed that the door opens to degree apprenticeships/funded courses. Those are not open to people who has not completed the foundation apprenticeship.

The apprenticeship has literally been his pathway to a career with great training, supportied education and hands on experience

Thank you. I'm hoping this would be the option DD gets if she is successful in gaining an apprenticeship. For many companies their higher and degree apprenticeships are only open to current employees. Fingers crossed the level 3 is a door in the door.