IB Maths A&A or IB Maths A&I - anyone got experience of these?

[Stoufer]

My dc (year 11) is considering doing IB at sixth form - and we are wondering about the different maths options. The school only offers A&A at HL and A&I at SL. Is it usual for a school not to offer all four options?

Does anyone have any knowledge of or experience about the different maths options? My dc is potentially wanting to do economics at uni, so wondering whether A&I at HL would have been better (had they offered it). Thanks

In my experience with a school which offers all four options, only 3 or 4 students had chosen A&I HL for the 2023 exams. I don't know about the 2024 exams.

A&I at SL seems to be quite popular as a calculator is allowed in both exam papers.

There are many more students taking A&A SL than A&A HL, so the school not offering A&A SL seems strange to me.

I don't know if A&I HL would be better, but I think A&I SL would be good enough for Economics, but you should check with your DC's preferred Universities.

Hi, thanks so much for this. Apparently they offered A&A SL up to a couple of years ago, but due to low uptake decided not to offer it. Unfortunately, most unis don’t accept SL maths (for BSc Economics) I have only found one that does - there may be a few others, but it just seems such a shame to limit the choice so early. Apparently A&A HL is really hard. Really unsure about what he should do.

A&A at HL is certainly much more challenging than A&A SL and usually students very good in maths aiming for degrees like maths, physics, engineering etc do it. It would not be necessary for Economics and would take up a lot of time which could be better spent on other subjects.

A&I HL is also challenging in several topics.

Generally, A&A involves much more pure mathematics whereas A&I involves much more statistics, and the difference between the two is quite marked.

A&I SL seems to be the choice for students who will not need much maths for their degrees. If they had a choice, they would not be doing maths at all, but have to because it is compulsory in IB.

A&A SL seems to be the best overall option to me, with one non-calculator and one calculator exam paper, and is more mathematics oriented rather than statistics oriented.

Does your DC enjoy maths? What result are you expecting in GCSE?

If after very careful consideration your DC decides on IB at this school, there would be two choices regarding maths. Either do A&A HL to meet certain Unis' requirements, or find alternative Unis which accept A&I SL.

Thanks so much for this. He doesn’t mind maths - I think once he understands the concepts he is fine with it. He can definitely get a 7, and is hoping for an 8 (the big problem is timing, getting on to the differentiating questions at the end, but we are hoping that enough practice will help this). The teacher said doing A&A HL would be a lot of very hard work for him, and he would prob only get a 5 or poss 6 in it (even after a huge amount of work). Lots to think about.

DD is in the first year of IB. I can't comments on A&I really, other than to say it's considered the easy(er) option among her peers.

DD does A&A HL. She got a very high 9 in her maths gcse and a 9 in Further Maths which she basically taught herself. She's a very good mathematician. Her HL class has had about a 50 per cent drop out rate (to SL) and those that are left (including DD) aren't finding it easy. It's really not to be underestimated in her experience.

Oh dear - that sounds really grim. So sorry to hear your DD is finding it tough. That is dreadful though - it sounds like IB is unfit for purpose, if someone as high-achieving as your DD is struggling. Does her school offer A&I at HL? Is that what all of those dropping out do afterwards? So it seems correct that A&A HL is more akin to further maths - so what are those supposed to do that need a Maths A level equivalent for onward study? The only option for my DS is A&A HL or A&I SL. Nothing in between. Very frustrating.

It might be helpful to think about the equivalent situation if taking A levels rather than IB. Cited by noblegiraffe in their 2020 MN thread, a study of those who took Maths GCSE in 2017 and who went on to take Maths A level in 2019 revealed, of those achieving a 9 at GCSE, only 45% achieved Astar at A level, with a further 37% achieving an A and the remaining 18% B or below (these stats also do not reference those who dropped out mid-course); so Maths is a real step up at A level and most likely at IB HL too.

The study also shows that whilst 82% of those achieving a 9 at GCSE secured an A or above at A level, the equivalent proportion, for those securing an 8 at GCSE, was 36% at A level and, at a grade 7 at GCSE, was 10% at A level. So if your DS is currently performing at the 7/8 grade boundary in Maths at GCSE, then there is a very strong possibility they would not secure the A, or possibly even the B, required for Maths A level to access a place on an RG+ BSc Econ course.

Alternatives, in an A level setting, might be humanities A levels perhaps supported by Core Maths and then application to BA Econ courses (or indeed a wide variety of other courses). In this context, IB A&I SL supporting non-maths IB HL choices does not seem quite so constraining. I hope this helps and it is great your DS has choices about whether to take A levels or IB; just wanted to make sure we are comparing apples and apples.

Thanks so much for this, it is really great to have your insight.

@PerpetualOptimist makes a very good point - Maths is well known to be one of the big 'jump' subjects between GCSE and A Level.

DD's college offers all four Maths options. I think most who drop HL A&A move to SL A&A.

I think most university offers which ask for Maths at HL don't specify A&A or A&I (I think there are a few Cambridge colleges which are exceptions), but that doesn't really help in your DC's situation.

danesch, your DD's situation regarding A&A HL seems quite unusual to me.

It is quite normal for many students to drop to A&A SL, but "a very good mathematician" who got a 9 in Further Maths shouldn't be struggling with the subject itself.

Could it be because of the pressure of studying 6 subjects, or the maths teacher not being good at explaining?

My kids did the IB and one who was unsure about doing HL maths did four HLs for the first year. They kept on with that, dropped a different subject to SL and did maths at uni. Your DD might perhaps be able to do similar?

Thanks for this - I don’t think it would be possible, the school tends not to be flexible with things, and feel that my dc would struggle with A&A HL, so I don’t think they would allow them to try 4 at HL for the first year.

My daughter is in her first year of doing the IB at her school they do HL Maths and SL Maths, She is doing SL however If your son wants to do Bsc Economics at university he will need HL Maths. If he is happy to do Ba Economics then SL will be fine however most economics degrees are Bsc. HL Maths is much harder than SL at my daughters school they won't consider you unless you have an 8/9 at GCSE.

Thanks for this - I think I need to learn more about the consequences for BA vs BSc for Economics careers!

My DS got a 9 in GCSE maths and is predicted a 7 in HL A&A (he's in year 13 so he's just finished his IB exams). I agree with the poster saying it's no harder than the jump to A Level maths (which is also recognised to be challenging).

My daughter was interested in an Economics degree and I looked into course requirements and most courses of any note require HL Maths there are only a few universities such as Manchester that run the Ba alongside the Bsc course.

Thanks OmuraWhale. That’s reassuring.

Yes, Have3kids - we’ve found that too.

@NoProblems I think the teacher isn't great at explaining (though obviously I'm going entirely on what my DD says about it)! I wouldn't say DD is struggling as such - just finding it hard and time-consuming, which she hasn't experienced before. She is predicted a 7 (but doesn't entirely trust the prediction). I didn't mean to make it sound like it was impossibly difficult, more that it's a big jump.

There's definitely been a period of adjustment for the kids I know doing Maths/FM A Level too.

It does sound like a difficult choice for your DS, @Stoufer. I hope he's able to find a solution he's happy with.

Thanks danesch - a lot will depend on results day (and whether he decides he is willing to move schools)..

danesch, A&A HL certainly is time-consuming as there is much to learn, and in greater depth than in A&A SL.

Your DD has done well in the first year to have been predicted a 7, and seems very sensible to be cautious about it!