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Further education

You'll find discussions about A Levels and universities on our Further Education forum.

No teacher for A-level - need an advice

88 replies

JTro · 03/11/2023 10:00

Hope someone can advise me what to do in this situation. My DS is in Year 13, one of his A-levels is Further Maths (FM). At the beginning of this school year, students doing FM chose what to do: 2 majors or 4 minors. My DS chose 4 minors and on the first week of doing his 4 minors he found out he has no maths teacher who will teach them ( it's 4 of them). Since then, Maths Subject Leader said that they need to teach themselves on Google Classroom, where she put some study materials while she try to sort it out very soon. Later on "very soon" transformed to "by the end of the half-term". When end of half-term happened, she said "at the beginning next half term it will be sort it out". Yesterday was first day of new half-term and of course the issue is still there. Now she says "it will be sorted out soon". At the same time, his Head of Year approached him and stronly advised to drom FM A-level and do AS-level instead, my DS refused. After that Head of Sixths Form approached him and again "strongly advised" to drop FM A-level. As his predicted grade for FM is B, I suspect this is their attempt to solve the issue by less painful way for them, but not taking into ccount his best interest. As all this happens through talking with his Maths subject leader, it looks like they will push him and few others to study FM themselves as long as they could and they are really missing out on proper studying and they do the same level on tests as other, who do have a techer. I need an advise how to approach school regarding this issue and finally make them to teach these 4 students properly. Should I contact Head teacher, or go straight to Governors? Just for reference - I am not familiar with A-level system at all, he is our first who is doing A-levels, and probably it's a norm when students learn themselves?

OP posts:
LolaSmiles · 03/11/2023 21:06

Not all maths teachers are able to teach further maths A Level. In an ideal world all secondary maths teachers would have maths degrees and be able to teach any and all aspects of the course. But that is not the case unfortunately
That's what I was going to say. There's every chance that some Key Stage 3 classes are being taught by teachers from other subjects too, or agency staff who are recent graduates with no higher than GCSE maths themselves, or support staff. I've known all happen.

I'm not following the major/minor part of the issue either, but surely in this situation the best option would be for him to join the class that has a teacher and accept a change in topics.

user701 · 03/11/2023 21:30

Why can’t he join the other class? Does it clash with another subject?

JTro · 03/11/2023 21:32

noblegiraffe · 03/11/2023 21:18

Ah, it's not OCR, it's OCR MEI.

https://www.ocr.org.uk/qualifications/as-and-a-level/further-mathematics-b-mei-h635-h645-from-2017/specification-at-a-glance/

The options selection is probably irrelevant for any future plans, he should just join the other class and study what they're studying.

I told straight away, all these A level things are not familiar for me:) I asked him why he decided to choose 3 minors instead of 1 major and 1 minor, his reply was for him it's easier to learn about each of these areas, not too deep, than learn 1 area deep and 1 not not deep. We also discussed if school offers to change the options, he will definitely consider the offer, so for now we'll just wait

OP posts:
JTro · 03/11/2023 21:34

user701 · 03/11/2023 21:30

Why can’t he join the other class? Does it clash with another subject?

That's what we are trying to find out.

OP posts:
PerpetualOptimist · 03/11/2023 21:41

One of my DC did OCR FM. The OCR syllabus has two compulsory papers (Pure 1 &2), accounting for 50% of the total. You then have to do a minimum of two option papers (accounting for another 25% each). There are four option papers to choose from: statistics, mechanics, discrete maths (ie algorithms) and extra pure.

A feature of OCR is that you can sit more than two option papers in the exam and the two option papers with the highest marks are used (along with your compulsory pure papers) in assessing your overall grade; the marks achieved in your less successful, addition option papers are disregarded. The upside is that students can cover a wider range of topics but the downside is they can spread themselves very thin and it complicates things in relation to teaching.

It sounds like your son and some others have elected / been persuaded to cover all four of the options. It might potentially be sensible for them, perhaps with the guidance and help of the Head of Maths, to work out how best to focus time and effort on just two of the options, rather than all four. For reference, my DC who sat OCR FM only took two options. Another DC sat Edexcel FM, which has a very different overall structure.

FluffyWhiteCloudsFloatBy · 03/11/2023 21:57

As said before MEI ocr have 50% Core pure and the other 50% of either 3 minors or 2 minors and 1 major. I have taught this in the past.

I’m not clear from your posts how many students are studying further maths in total, and not just the options he has chosen.

All the schools I have worked in have had large maths departments, where as I have been one of only 2 or 3 maths departments.

What strikes me as odd here is that he has been given a choice of options if this doesn’t match the staffing. In my school we don’t offer students a choice of options as we don’t have the classes to accommodate this.

In your case I think the options are:

  1. if there are timetabled classes with different options I would strongly advise switching to this- even if it is a less desired option it is much better than self teaching

  2. If not use the AMSP/ formally further maths support programme to support independent study

  3. drop further maths

It is very hard to find good maths teachers, let alone good further maths teachers, so it seems to me that the failing of the school is possibly offering options that they could not accommodate. But at this stage you need to select one of the three options above.

TizerorFizz · 03/11/2023 21:59

The whole issue should never have arisen. If 4 pupils opt for something, that’s not enough. If there is no teacher availability, it should never have been offered! To anyone. In my old grammar, the maths department did the timetabling. It’s clear this has disadvantaged these pupils and the maths department really cannot expect them to teach themselves and 4 students is never viable for a separate group. So why was this combo ever offered? They must have known there was an issue much earlier in the term.

JTro · 03/11/2023 22:03

TizerorFizz · 03/11/2023 21:59

The whole issue should never have arisen. If 4 pupils opt for something, that’s not enough. If there is no teacher availability, it should never have been offered! To anyone. In my old grammar, the maths department did the timetabling. It’s clear this has disadvantaged these pupils and the maths department really cannot expect them to teach themselves and 4 students is never viable for a separate group. So why was this combo ever offered? They must have known there was an issue much earlier in the term.

Exactly! And Maths subject leader was aware of this situation straight away, back in September, but carried on to give promises to "sort it out" up until yesterday!

OP posts:
JTro · 03/11/2023 22:07

FluffyWhiteCloudsFloatBy · 03/11/2023 21:57

As said before MEI ocr have 50% Core pure and the other 50% of either 3 minors or 2 minors and 1 major. I have taught this in the past.

I’m not clear from your posts how many students are studying further maths in total, and not just the options he has chosen.

All the schools I have worked in have had large maths departments, where as I have been one of only 2 or 3 maths departments.

What strikes me as odd here is that he has been given a choice of options if this doesn’t match the staffing. In my school we don’t offer students a choice of options as we don’t have the classes to accommodate this.

In your case I think the options are:

  1. if there are timetabled classes with different options I would strongly advise switching to this- even if it is a less desired option it is much better than self teaching

  2. If not use the AMSP/ formally further maths support programme to support independent study

  3. drop further maths

It is very hard to find good maths teachers, let alone good further maths teachers, so it seems to me that the failing of the school is possibly offering options that they could not accommodate. But at this stage you need to select one of the three options above.

Thank you! As I understand AMPS should be offered by the school, we are, like individuals, can't sign up to this. Out of the listed options, of course the first one will be less damaging for him

OP posts:
Boomboom22 · 03/11/2023 22:09

The thing is no way is the teacher going to put on extra free lessons because your ds wanted to do options that create a tt clash.
But it is poor not to just upload the materials to the Google classroom when she teaches them to the others so those with a clash can catch up. FM is not usually taught in as many hours so most a level have 5hrs a week ish, FM might get 2 anyway as you have to be very capable to even do it.

HappiDaze · 03/11/2023 22:11

That's so weird

My DS is taking FM A Level and is just doing pure maths and none of these other options

Can he not go somewhere else

My DS took his maths A Level in the summer in Yr 12

The maths dept sound absolutely dire

Why in a grammar school are they taking both maths and FM in yr 13

It's like a rubbish school

FluffyWhiteCloudsFloatBy · 03/11/2023 22:12

There are videos available here from AMSP:
FMSP video links
but this will not be as good as a teacher. I would get him to choose the other options and then if you have the energy complain to the school that they offered non viable options which they left him waiting on for so long.

Resource - AMSP

https://amsp.org.uk/resource/4b42a0ae-0857-49c3-5f88-08dabcb692fe/

JTro · 03/11/2023 22:12

FluffyWhiteCloudsFloatBy, as you are familiar with this exam board and was teaching it, is my DS right in his perception that doing 3 minors is a bit easier that doing mix of major/minors?

OP posts:
JTro · 03/11/2023 22:16

FluffyWhiteCloudsFloatBy · 03/11/2023 22:12

There are videos available here from AMSP:
FMSP video links
but this will not be as good as a teacher. I would get him to choose the other options and then if you have the energy complain to the school that they offered non viable options which they left him waiting on for so long.

Usually, I do prefer to be constructive. If this teaching problem will be sorted out somehow without them forcing him to dropn FM, I would not be complaining. Thanks for the link!

OP posts:
HappiDaze · 03/11/2023 22:28

Fact is your DS wants to take maths and FM

He will need to accept its not working out

And change these bizarre options asap

And choose options where there is a teacher to teach him

He'll have a lot of catching up to do so he needs to decide and take an option

Applied maths is the easiest so it's the one he should choose if there is a choice / lack of choice or whatever

HappiDaze · 03/11/2023 22:30

Write an email to the HoD head of department, head of school, every day till you get an answer

Turning up or phoning the school will not get faster results

You need to to email

JTro · 03/11/2023 22:33

HappiDaze · 03/11/2023 22:30

Write an email to the HoD head of department, head of school, every day till you get an answer

Turning up or phoning the school will not get faster results

You need to to email

Thanks for trying to help. As I mentioned a few times already the only contact I have ss HoY, school refuses to provide any other emails due to confidentiality. It looks like your DC has different exam board with different structure. To change a school is not an option at this stage.

OP posts:
Beebalino · 03/11/2023 22:34

I have taught Further Maths (a different exam board though so I’m not familiar with the major / minor set up)

I would say the best option is to join the class that does have a teacher, and forget his preference for the minors. Having a teacher will be much better than trying to teach himself, FM is so hard even with a teacher!

Most schools that offer FM (and there aren’t that many left) literally offer one class and there is no option for students to pick and chose modules. If he didn’t have any options he wouldn’t even be questioning it, he’d just be doing whatever he was taught.

I would phone the school and ask for a meeting with the Head of Maths to sort it out once and for all so he can just get on with being taught. It’s ridiculous that these 4 students have been left for so many weeks without a teacher when, if I’ve understood correctly, there is a class doing FM they could join?

Unless I’ve completely misunderstood the set up which is quite likely! 😂 Some schools have their FM students studying both Maths and FM over the two years, others do Maths in yr 12 and FM in yr 13.

TizerorFizz · 03/11/2023 22:36

Pupils don’t choose unavailable options? What school even lists options they cannot teach? The school has the responsibility to offer what it can deliver. It should never offer what it cannot. So it was never down to DS. He and 3 others did what was on offer at the time. They didn’t make it up did they? I’ve never heard of a school offering what they knew they couldn’t teach and then carrying on until November selling a lie. DS will have to do what’s easiest to change to. Plenty of schools run M and FM concurrently over two years.

HappiDaze · 03/11/2023 22:37

I really hope you get this sorted out

I feel so upset for you and your DS

This is so very unfair for him

And it's mucking up his education

He has to stop trusting this teacher who keeps fobbing them off

And make a swift decision that's going to work so he can study and pass his exams

HappiDaze · 03/11/2023 22:39

Pretty sure my DS is doing AQA

HappiDaze · 03/11/2023 22:42

What exam board is your DS

My DS is also taking chemistry and physics along with FM. He's already taken his maths A Level which he says is easy and everyone in his FM class got an A*

It's a state school

Loads of DC dropped out of FM in the first few months last year as it was full on with extra classes after school to fit it all in

FluffyWhiteCloudsFloatBy · 03/11/2023 22:42

3 minors is not necessarily easier. Different students enjoy/are better at different units so for many 1 major and 1 minor is easier.

When I taught MEI we had to make whole cohort decisions, but started with two minors and assessment results helped us to decide whether to continue with one minor up to a major or start a 3rd minor.

For example, if he does physics he may well find mechanics easier, and so major in mechanics and minor in either stats, algorithms or numerical methods

HappiDaze · 03/11/2023 22:43

If it's any consolation your DS should do well regardless in his exams but he really needs to know the content so has got to get these option sorted now

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