Further Maths - Optional Modules?

[ChicoryDip]

We are in the process of visiting 6th forms for DD who wants to do Maths and Further Maths alongside Physics and Geography.

One of the 6th forms was clear that they only offer statistics and mechanics as options - the don't do decision or (additional?) pure maths.

Is this fairly normal? New to this as it's the first DC with any interest in maths so not sure if we should be looking for a 6th form that offers more options or whether just offering statistics and mechanics is normal practice.

Any insight or pros/cons appreciated.

DS's school had approx 20ish students taking Further Maths A-level. The only option available was Further Statistics 1 and Further Mechanics 1.

He also taught himself Further Pure Maths 1 during the summer between finishing A-level courses and starting university, partially for fun and also as preparation for his university course.

Our (private) school only offers the further mech and stat.
I think it's quite poor, as unis are judging kids from private schools to have had lots of opportunities and fantastic teaching. The teacher left half way through the course and there is no choice of modules...hmmm...not such a fantastic education.

OP at least the school you are looking at is honest about it. Some will be dishonest - say they offer a choice of modules and then due to "unforseen circumstances", everyone will have to do the same.

@jlpth I think I was just a bit surprised. I'd had a look at the spec from the exam board which said that there were potentially 10x different combinations of additional options so I whilst I was expecting that with teacher shortages and timetabling there might be some restrictions I wasn't expecting it to be quite so limited.

Really well done to your DS @Ironoaks. Has he gone on to do maths at university?

We’re also looking at further maths options - some of the colleges run it by doing a level maths intensively for a year, then you take the alevel maths exam at the end of y12. Then you do further maths intensively for y13 and sit that at the end of y13.

Others run them both at the same time (and give you the option of taking further maths as an as level at end y12 and stopping there if it’s getting to be too much).

Doing maths then further maths makes more sense in my head - but you are then committed. Anyone got any experience of pros or cons of either way?

@ChicoryDip he is studying physics (via natural sciences); he wanted to take the most challenging / condensed option for the required first year maths course.
He does enjoy maths; he chose to continue with it in second year, and he is considering taking a maths course as one of his fourth year options.

Most sixth forms offering further maths A-level will only be running one class, and I think it's likely that they will only teach one combination of options for logistical reasons.

My dd did her a levels pre-reforms so probably not directly comparable. Her school didn't give her a choice of options - as there was one classful doing maths and FM so I don't really see how they reasonably could have.
However, some of them self-taught extra modules with the encouragement and a bit of support from the teacher. DD did an extra mechanics option, one of her friends did a further pure.
Statistics and mechanics are probably the most generally useful for most students in their further studies.

No choice for my dd either: further mechanics and further pure.
@Talipesmum
at dd’s school they study the entire a level course and a few of the FM topics in year 12 but do not take the exam. Year 13 is then FM and revision of the a level topics. The logic behind this is that if a student wants to drop FM they are still taking three a levels at the end of year 13.

My DC did Edexcel FM in recent years and the two options were chosen by the school. As Errol says, there would be logistical problems trying to cater for a multiplicity of combinations within one class.

@Talipesmum, there are pros and cons both ways. Mine did Maths and FM via the 'in parallel' route, which they much preferred to the 'sequentially' route, as it took pressure off completing and passing Maths A level in Y12. It allowed them to grow into Maths and Further Maths.

Thank you for all of your replies. It's really helpful to read the different ways of doing things. Also reassuring to read that it's normal to have a limited number of further options and that it's not just our local schools/colleges.

DD is leaning towards the 6th form that runs maths and further maths in parallel rather than sequential.

She doesn't want the pressure of taking A Level maths at the end of Y12 and is also concerned that for two years she'd be spending 50% of her time with a very small 'fast track' cohort. Not sure that's the greatest reason but I understand her thinking and at the end of the day it's her choice.

This is the case for most schools and is the same with other exams where there are options - for example GCSE English lit, or history. There are many options on offer from the exam board and the school then chooses which ones to teach. It is rare that the students get to pick which option they want.

@Talipesmum my sons do all of maths in year 12, fm in year 13 but they take both exams at the end of year 13, reasoning that their maths would improve with a year of fm.

Their sixth form website says their exams are core pure 1 and 2, further mechanics and decsion maths 1.

@ChicoryDip How small a cohort? Ds has full classes of 30 students, there are 60 on the "fast track" in total. I also sure that they could easily argue they want to sit the maths A level at the end of year 13 not 12. Also what grade GCSE is she coming in on? A grade 7 will usually result in a C or D grade at A level.

Totally normal for the school to pick what is taught and stats/mechanics is a decent combo.

My DS1 is doing Maths and Further Maths - Maths this year and FM next - he was torn between 2 of the 5 sixth forms he applied to and had offers from (his results met the conditions for all), and his other favourite does the same. The FM cohort is doing Maths together - he has friends from his 11-16 secondary doing Maths in other groups. He travels in with one of his friends who lives round the corner, and sits next to another mate who lives on the street parallel to ours for tutor group time each day, but I think he said they don't have many lessons together.

But I would assume that anywhere doing both in parallel is also going to teach the cohort doing FM both Maths and FM together, for timetabling reasons - and that if anything, and because it probably makes more sense teaching students doing both together and students doing Maths only in other groups. If she's doing other subjects commonly taken with Maths, she may be in a cohort with others for even more than 50% of the time. The size of that group probably depends on the size of the 6th form - DS1's sixth form has almost 400 students in his year (many years ago mine was perhaps 90!). Most subject combinations will also affect who you're taught with, and the Maths and Further Maths group will probably be a bit bigger than the group doing English and History or English and Sociology.

My DC did FM in parallel with Maths and the FM class (c 25) was drawn from across two Maths sets. This required more co-ordination by the school (a comp with sixth form) but also meant there was more flexibility in terms of other subject choices; so there were a decent number of FM students taking humanity subjects (including my own) and as a result FM was not restricted to 'Stem-only' students (as can sometimes be the case because of option blocks). This, along with other factors, helped boost the number of female students taking FM. It really depends on the school or college and their willingness to be flexible and make it work.

@PointyPot According to the 6th form they expect a group of around 16-18 who would do maths and further maths and be taught together for the two years. Another 50ish students just do maths and are taught across two more groups. As a PP mentioned it's likely that a number of the FM group will also be doing physics so potentially timetabled together for that too.

If they decide not to continue with FM after Y12 they would be moved to one of the other maths groups for Y13 but obviously would be repeating a lot of material.

I think I'm now overthinking this and DD needs to be leading the decision.

Thank you for all the different views though - it's been incredibly useful to get that insight from others.

@ChicoryDip I think your DD is being sensible thinking all these things through. The physics class probably would have the maths/fm people in but would possibly be a full sized class.

I think only having 16-18 students is of a benefit, smaller class sizes mean the students get more individual attention from the teacher. Ds is doing maths, fm, computer science and economics, his mates are doing the same but instead of economics they are doing physics. In year 12 they were timetabled together for their 3 subjects in common, this year they are not so it may depend on where that geography subject sits in the timetable.

I understand the worry of not gelling with people in the class when it is a smaller cohort but it is actually quite lovely to be in a class with children who have chosen their subject. You can be good at maths for GCSE but not like it. Very different for A level.