Workload - further maths

[autumn666]

My DS has just started year 12 and is taking 4 a'levels, with the 4th being further maths. He is coping fine with his main 3 subjects but is struggling with some parts of further maths, which is also making up the bulk of his homework, and affecting the time he can dedicate to his other subjects.

I have spoken to him about dropping it if it starts to impact his other grades, as he doesn't need further maths for what he wants to do but he wants to carry on with it. He is a really capable student, with all 9's at GCSE in his A level subjects but the jump seems huge.

Is this likely to be part of dealing with the transition to A level and will get easier or a sign that he needs to consider dropping it. How long should he give it a try for?

Thank you @BreadInCaptivity thats really helpful.

I agree that you need the maths wiring for further maths. I do believe DD has it as she’s like her Dad. She thinks differently and just ‘sees’ things. I don’t think she’s ever encountered a problem she can’t solve given enough time. That’s not to say she could solve everything by any means, it’s only GCSE so far but she said she finds the subject easy so far.

Im not sure how much she loves it though. She said she finds it’s satisfying to solve maths problems but she can’t see any real application to the real world. I guess she’s still very young.

Because she has a natural aptitude I think it’s a waste not to pursue it but then I do want her to enjoy her work and whatever she goes on to do.

More than anything she loves writing and wants to be an author.

We said she can take a year out before or after uni to do a writing course if that’s what she wants to do. Though she’s already studied plot structure, character etc at length.

She loves learning, whatever it is, languages, literature etc.

The only thing to date she’s found a bit boring is physics. So engineering and physics are off the table.

Thank you for your help. We’ve decided tonight to start with four including FM and see she goes.

She does appreciate a lot of downtime to be honest and could in no way sustain @autumn666 DS’s schedule. It would be too much for her.

I am worried 4 a levels will be too much but she has to try as it may work out. And we wouldn’t know if maths, FM plus one other might be right for her if we don’t start out on this route.

Thank you also @autumn666 for coming back to the thread with an update.

Your DS sounds amazing!! You must be very proud of him.

@Vive42 Remember, for many students, Maths and FM together do not feel like 'double maths' but more like, say, 1.75 A levels because of common ground. I would be surprised if your DC would have only two free periods a week if taking four A levels; mine had 7 frees a week on the same basis (comp).

FM as a third is rarely allowed as dropping it (because subsequently found to be too difficult) leaves the student marooned with just two A levels. Sometimes a non-FM A level might be dropped before Y13, but only if the student is good at FM and only looking to go on to Maths and Maths-adjacent subjects at uni.

You say your DC appreciates downtime and has a creative side; mine were the same at this stage. (I have two DC who have done FM as a fourth subject). They did become progressively more time efficient in Y12 and Y13 (and beyond) and so were able to fit in volunteering and paid work. You may find your DD will be the same; certainly the medic route will require the honing of those skills. One of mine has kept up a very creative hobby whilst doing an accountancy apprenticeship and just makes sure they are hyper-efficient at work and at study so they have the creative time they desire.

Remember that if your DD does decide to pursue the Maths route at uni, then a gap year after Y13 if not advisable. She could look to do that after uni, or carve out time as she goes along or consider a 'Maths&' degree that dilutes the puzzle solving and weird symbols.

@PerpetualOptimist thank you. All this is really useful to read and hear about.

Weve been told by the school it will be just two frees per week. I’m not sure why it’s so intense. They are a bit worried if she’ll cope. She’s been cruising for the last 4 years or so and suddenly started working in November. She managed to get three 9s, three 8s and four 7s all academic subjects, no art or dt etc. She’s always worked hard in class but it’s been outside of class she doesn’t want to do extra but just recently found her stride with putting in more time. She has volunteered in a charity shop for a year or so for a couple of hours a week but not doing that right now. Would he too much for her but she is keeping up drama once a week outside school. So as you say she may find she gets better as squeezing more in as well as getting used to working harder.

She told me yesterday that those doing 4 a levels can miss double PE session if they want but said she’d rather not. Likes to be active though not a team sport player.

I take it that the no gap thing going onto uni straight is due to forgetting stuff? A year is a long time away from all those concepts.

Yes we’ve wondered about psychology and maths, seen it at Newcastle and Durham but not sure if it works well in the real world?

Interesting your DC is doing accountancy apprenticeship. No uni? Do you think it’s a better route? No debt at the end! Got to be a good thing.

I have wondered if it would be less pressure on DD to go straight to apprenticeship as pressure after coming out of uni to land a job feels high.

Thank you again for your help.

She said she finds it’s satisfying to solve maths problems but she can’t see any real application to the real world. I guess she’s still very young.

There's a lack of visibility and understanding of what maths may be used for - perhaps because not many people in the media have much of a clue about maths, science and technology. 'The real world' now depends a lot on maths. I'm in a niche area of scientific software development (used for applications such as drug discovery, biotherapeutics etc but also advanced materials development) - we use a lot of 'hard maths'. That's just one example.
A side note re physics - I think it's unfortunate that it can be quite dry at school, I think it gets a lot more interesting the further you go. I guess a lot of kids may be put off STEM subjects because there's quite a lot of slogging up the foothills required.

As a non-mathematician, my take is that a maths degree is a bit like mental acrobatics, lots of continuous practice to crack ever more complicated puzzles. In this context, Maths departments may fear a student loses 'form" in a gap year through lack of practice.

Applying for a degree-level apprenticeship in Y13 is very pressured. For every hundred 18 year olds going to uni, only two 18 year olds secure a L5-7 apprenticeship. At 17, you have to pass recruitment tests designed for 21 year olds and at 18 perform in the workplace like a 22 year old. Very little age allowance, if any, is given.
In our experience, schools are not particularly aware or understanding during the recruitment process and both DC found the Autumn term of Y13 full on and very difficult to juggle (just as it can be for second year students applying for placements or final year students applying for grad schemes).

Degree-level apprenticeships do mean you narrow your options at the outset and you are immediately into the world of targets, appraisals, limited holiday etc. Mine did a lot of research of both uni and apprenticeship options in Y11-12 and were very clear about what they were giving up and what they were signing up to. The whole 'debt free' aspect (an understandable focus for many parents) was not really a main issue; it is really about a style of learning and a desire for early responsibility. There are some other active threads about apprenticeships on this forum if you want find out more.

My main point in flagging creative hobbies in the context of an apprenticeship is that these things can be maintained as part of ongoing life - whether at school, uni or in work. It just sometimes takes a bit of determined time management. It might not be necessary to consider a gap year. I hope that helps.