Sport HNC/HNC vs Unrelated A-levels

[HeartVHeed]

Looking for advice from the wise MN on a heart vs head quandary.

DS yr11 will be sitting GCSEs in 2024 and is predicted 7-9s across the board.

He is considering 2 options:

1. School Sixth Form doing A-levels in Business Studies, Physics and Maths. Predicted 9, 8/9 and 7 respectively at GCSE.

BUT he is adamant that he doesn't want to go to university and has absolutely no idea what career might interest him that he could use these a-levels for. He would be choosing them based on subjects he enjoys doing.

When asked what he wants to do "career wise" he says he wants to be a professional at a sport he currently participates in and has started competing in this year.

Which leads me to option 2.

2. RPA/HNC/HND Sports Development Coaching. A particular College offers this qualification alongside practical coaching in his sport. The course is aimed specifically at those competing at national level and wanting to progress to international/professional level.

It's 3 days at college + 2 days practical and after 3 years he would have a HND alongside a coaching qualification in the sport and another qualification related to it.

BUT the college is 2 hours away from us and does not have its own accommodation so we would have to find (private?) student accommodation for him. Cost isn't an issue but he would only be be 16+9 months at enrolment.

My HEAD says we should be encouraging him to stay on at school. What I thought I wanted to do at 16 bore no resemblance to what I ended up doing as a career, so he should keep his options open.

The a-levels he is thinking about would open up more doors into careers that are well paid (engineering, AI, robotics, etc etc).

We could afford to pay for him to have the coaching element of the college course at weekends etc so he'd still be getting the development in his sport.

Not doing a-levels in those subjects with those predicted grades somehow feels "a waste".

My heart says encourage him to follow his heart.

I've always said that people should do a job they love and feel passionate about. Life is about living not working to pay bills.

I want him to travel and see the world, and this sport could be a great opportunity IF it turned out he was good at it.

But what if he isn't?

What if he doesn't make it as a professional?

What else could he do with a HND in Sports Development? The options seem fairly limited, none of which in all honesty I could see him liking.

Sensible me says a-levels, get a decent paying job and do the sport as a self funded amateur.

But I also wanted him to live his life to the max!

I can't really give advice, just an anecdote (well, this is MN)! But my DS found himself in a fairly similar position. He has competed internationally in a very niche Olympic sport, and had to decide whether to pursue it further or focus more on academic study. He decided to follow the academic path, and he's pursuing his niche sport as a hobby. He also intends to gain his coaching qualifications in it.

One of the deciding factors for him (and us as parents) was geography, the next-level training for him would be not two hours away but more like eight. And he has other interests he'd have to sacrifice for it.

I should add that another relevant difference is that he has a degree and profession in mind, unlike your DS.

Good luck!

OP will your DS not discover more clearly whether he is good at this sport over the next year? Can I ask why he has only started with it so recently (s it a sport you cannot do before age 14/15)?

Did he do other sport - is he keen on sport in general? I actually think the HND sounds great if he is really up for it and will excel in the sport. Knowing that seems to be the sticking point.

I imagine the HND will still enable him to go to uni if that becomes something her wants.

Does he love those subjects he would do for A level? If not then that's a bit dismal as a two-year project. Btw 7 is the lowest grade where I would consider maths A level. DS did it with an 8 and fought hard to get his grade B.

Isn’t HND level 5 and A levels, level 3? Quite a jump to HND from GCSEs isn’t it? I thought HND was 18 plus.

Can he not do PE A level? Plus get better at the sport whilst at home? Is there work for him in this sport? Is it normally coached by ex high level players? Like most sports. How good is he? Be truthful: and he should be realistic. Is this course really going to land a coaching job?

What is the entry requirement for the HNC? I also thought it was for 18+

Yes good point about the HND level. can he even do it at 16?

The sport is mountain biking.

Kids get into it more seriously around 11/12 and competition age is usually 13+ but lockdowns meant his opportunities were very very limited (no racing for starters!)

Location is also a factor. While he is ahead of his local peers he is behind those who live in locations with greater choice of decent trails/facilities.

I imagine his age group living near where the College is spent their entire lockdown doing it whereas he couldn't because we couldn't travel too far!

Essentially, those who live near the best facilities can do it daily, DS has been limited to weekly at mediocre facilities and monthly at the better places.

Regular repeated practise is quite a big factor.

This makes it hard to judge whether given the opportunity to focus solely on it, would he be awesome or would he still be mediocre?!

He has had coaching and we were told he had a natural aptitude for it and learned/improved quickly.

He is also in a club and is in the hardest/highest category having only joined this year (2 year waiting list!)

His a-level choices of business studies and physics are because he genuinely enjoys the two subjects.

His sixth form insist on 3 a-levels and maths complements physics.

He is predicted 8s in German and Geography and 7s in English and the other sciences but baulked at the idea of doing any of those at a-level!

When I ask him what he wants to do he says "ride my bike", but I'd expect that response from a 15 year old boy!

I'm really turn between encouraging him to follow his dreams and being the sensible parent 😂

It's a 3 year course starting with NPA in year 1, HNC year 2 and HND year 3.

So yes, most of them do it straight from GCSE/SCQ5.

He can't do a-level PE because he hasn't done it at GCSE.

To be clear, he doesn't want to do the course to get into coaching - he wants to race at professional level, this is what the specific course is aimed at helping them get to.

How many students realistically earn money professionally from this course?Who employs them and where? I think I would want a proper critique of his ability. What competitions is he doing and with what results? COVID’s been gone for over a year now.

Even if he is international level at the sport and can make a living out of it, no sports careers last forever. He needs a fallback option.

Are you able to share the sport?

Racing starts age 13 but there weren't any the year he turned 13 due to covid.

The year he turned 14 we spent having him coached and taking him out as much as possible as we didn't feel he had enough experience to race yet (due to covid restrictions for the previous 18-24 months).

This year he raced some introductory/entry level competitions (on the advice of his coach) to get him used to the set up and how races/events work.

He did ok, middle of the field in his category. Those above him live where the races were though and their social media profiles are basically them riding those trails week in week out. DS has only ridden them once or twice, some he's never ridden before the race weekend.

2024 he will be racing in two different "full" series so we'll get a better idea of how good (or not!) he is.

That's what my quandary is @Ellmau

To help him get to the level he aspires to, pretty much requires almost total focus on it.

If I encourage him to stay on at sixth form he may never get the opportunity to give it total focus and therefore possibly would only ever get to race as a self funded "privateer" alongside having a regular day job.

I've always told him he could do anything he wanted to as long as he is prepared to put the hard graft in......

It's now coming back to bite me on the ass!

Is his type of mountain biking one that has an NSR? Did he get a slot for 2024? (My kids do a different type of cycling so I’m not very good on mountain biking.)

I’d be very nervous about encouraging a child who is not strong enough for NSR (if it exists) to throw all their chips into cycling.

I think the DC wants to move from early days with virtually no experience to getting paid. I remember Chris Hoy had to be taken to Manchester by his dad to compete as they didn’t have a velodrome in Scotland at the time. So you have to put in the graft as well as him. It’s what parents do if they mean what they say. I think you do need to look at the regional set up but finishing mid div isn’t really pulling up trees. Yes, others have more experience but is the course going to improve him that much? I would keep it as a hobby but you have told DS if he works at something he will be supported. Usually Dc work out they are not gifted enough to make a career of it.

Is this the college? BASE Mountain Biking | Borders College

Note that it's not free if you don't live in Scotland (which I assume you aren't as you're talking about A levels as the alternative). And he might not even get in if he's only middle of the pack at the moment.

I'd be inclined to say stick with the A levels but facilitate more weekend trips to the better biking areas so he can practice.

Maybe not maths though with a 7 at GCSE.

Whatever sport he is in to, I'm guessing cycling, he should have a look at Loughborough uni. They have excellent sport facilities and can be flexible with study if their students are competing.

https://www.lboro.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/sport/performance-sport/

One question I would ask is “what if it all goes right?”

By this I mean - how does it work for the No 1 in the world, the No 10 in the world, the No 1 in the U.K. Are they able to pay for all their travelling costs and still come out with a genuine living from the sport?

I say this as the close family member of a Commonwealth Games medalist in a minority sport (nothing to do with cycling) who basically couldn’t.

@sashh This question is A levels or hnc! Uni is very different and everyone immediately says Loughborough. What if he gets lower grades than Loughborough want?

@Mumofteenandtween Is no 10 in the uk likely here? Or no 100?

Who knows? Probably not. There are a lot of people who want to make it in every sport for each one who does.

But my point is that before you decide to chase a rainbow it is important to check that the pot of gold is actually a pot of gold and not a pot of random coppers.

I think that most people would be shocked at how little money even those who are technically highly successful at their sport are able to earn.

And this isn’t about living without a sports car. This is about being able to travel to the top level events that mean that you can maintain your international ranking.

I agree. However the top few in a sport might be ok if it’s a well supported sport with a coaching set up. Otherwise I think it’s a huge risk when you don’t have much of a track record to judge!

Thanks everyone, these are really good points/questions and all things I'm going to put to him and get him to think of what his answers might be.

I think he totally accepts that he may not be good enough to be a superstar and that in reality, he needs to at least be good enough to be signed by a team and/or have sponsors so that things like kit and travel costs are covered, even if he doesn't make a living from it.

My fear is that if he doesn't make it, would he be left holding a qualification that is useless and other doors are closed to him?

In theory, with the qualification and experience he may be able to still get a job working for a team in a non-riding capacity......

It's a 3 year course, he should know during that period whether he is competitive enough and if he isn't, it can be used to do a full degree if he changed his mind and decided he did fancy uni.

Applications have to be done in December, a poster is right of course that he may not even get in so he would still have the option of a-levels.

We just need to decide whether to support him through the process and if he gets in, are prepared to support him chasing his dreams, or whether we need to be the sensible parents and encourage him to do a-levels.

In reality, a-levels and racing as a hobby means him giving up his dream of ever racing for a team/professional outfit.

Vs pursuing his dream that might or might not become reality.

That's a good way of looking at it OP. I initially took it to be a sport you cannot start until age 15 (like American football). I agree with @TizerorFizz if he has had three years to get good, he should be better than finishing mid-table if he’s going to turn pro. I hope that doesn't sound harsh.

I think the maxim “You can do anything as long as you work hard enough” is dangerous. I recall an 8yo I knew who was an OK footballer, but very far from the best even on his little schoolboy team. He told me he was going to be a footballer when he grew up. No chance. No chance at all. I am sure that now he has long recognised that – but truly, there are some things that are beyond us. I could improve my singing voice or my piano playing with a lot of practice – but I will never be a concert pianist nor a professional opera singer.

I also think @Mumofteenandtween makes a good point about financial rewards. A colleague played a not especially niche sport to a very high level and has competed for their country at international events. But they still had to fund loads of things like flights, equipment, kit themselves.

I know a bit about athletics and often see athletes who are genuinely promising. By that I mean that even without lots of training and coaching, they can run faster, jump higher, throw further than any of their peers. But even then, only a tiny fraction of the very best will make it to the highest level, for whatever reason – injury, lack of work, lack of innate talent, not got the right attitude, not got the parental support, just not in the right place at the right time.

I’m not saying your son should not try. And I really really hope he can continue to enjoy taking part in sport. But I would definitely advise accessing as much training and competition as you can in the next 10 months – including driving him all over the place as much as you need to, so you can make a realistic assessment of your lad’s potential. And I would prime him to expect to be taking A-levels this time next year. It's a shame he didn't take GCSE PE tbh - was it not offered by his school?

Btw – yes maths A level is more or less a must if you take physics; many schools will not allow physics without maths.

Have you looked into where offers the Diploma in Sporting Excellence for British Cycling? My DD is doing this for another sport and it is taken alongside 3 Alevels (or Btecs).

You have to be nominated by your national governing body for your sport and attend an accredited school/college. It is specifically designed for elite sports students to help them become professional sports people but done alongside a levels/Btecs so the athletes have alternatives if things don’t work out (which obv for many is the case).

I can’t attach a link but just google cycling and DiSE and it will come up.

There's always the option of armed forces careers and competing for the respective teams etc?