Need to pick 3 from FM, Maths, Biology and Computer Science for A-level

[lalasmith10]

DS was supposed to study 4 subjects at a-level but had to make it 3 as he got 8 for one of his a-level subjects. He had to have 9 for all his A-level choices to be qualified to study 4.

Now he needs to rethink the combination of his A-level. His choices are;

1. FM, Maths and Biology
2. FM, Maths and Computer Science
3. Maths, Computer Science and Biology

He picked Option 2, but I feel it's quite narrow.

He could do Option 1 and coding as a non-a-level topic to make his a-level choices broader.

Or, he could keep Option 2 and then do a language A-level privately to make his choices more balanced. He is bilingual and I am a teacher so no problem with preparing for the A-level privately. He is also doing a music diploma this winter, so Option 2 plus a language as the 4th subject and a music diploma sound broad enough??

Currently, he says he wants to do maths at a good university. He is good at maths but I am not sure if he is good enough to do a math degree as I hear it's a place for a real maths genius. He got 9 for maths but 7 for FM for GCSE so he is very good at maths but not a genius.

I am also wondering if he can cope with FM a-level as his FM gcse was 7 not 8 or 9. Perhaps he should drop FM and do the rest of the three?

Any thoughts from knowledgeable people would be very much appreciated.

I didn’t suggest he took a fourth Alevel. I suggested option 3 of the three presented. If you prefer a more focused narrow education from 16 by all means promote that. I think it’s limiting.

I'll ping @noblegiraffe but I imagine it is a very busy day for them with it being results day. @lalasmith10 noble is a maths and further maths teacher and may add some insight especially about breadth of the 3rd A level is maths.

I find it absolutely ridiculous that the sixth form want 9s to continue a subject to A level subject. Even Oxbridge considers 8s and 9s as the same as they are both A stars.

Although top unis may not say they want fm there is usually an entrance exam (TMUA which is being phased out, MAT or STEP) which they use to gauge mathematical ability. Fm is usually taken as a 4th A level due to the way funding works for state schools. Only a small number take 4 A levels (4.6%) compared to 3 (66.6%) and around half of those taking a 4th A level are taking further maths. Lots of applicants for maths degrees will have fm and many will take 4 A levels. Successful applicant numbers are available online if you look.

I too think the school are being ridiculous. Most schools don't even offer FM GCSE, never mind stipulate you have to get a Grade 9 in it to do A level.

Is there another 6th Form/College he could apply to instead?

Whilst it is true that most maths degrees don't stipulate that FM A level is a requirement for a maths degree, this is because some state schools/colleges do not offer it. If you attend a 6th form that does offer it, they will usually question why you didn't choose FM as an option.

Ok thanks for answering!

If he is looking at a maths degree then Further maths would be better. Some universities encourage STEP for which he will need FM content. Can you convince school to allow him to start all 4 and review at half-term or Christmas? What do his Martha teachers think? He seems to be doing a lot outside of school so breadth is not so much of an issue. For the home language are there other exams to prove competency for higher education?

As other say, it is absolutely not necessary to do FM to do a Maths degree at uni. Doing it can make the experience of the maths degree easier in the first year and there are super competitive Maths and CompSci courses that would be precluded without FM; but all such courses expect you to ace your FM as well as all your other subjects.

The risk is that if your DS takes the 'narrow' options of FM plus two others and drops FM because he finds it too hard, he is left with two subjects and has closed off a huge number of uni options. If he soldiers on and gets, say, C or D, then again he has compromised compared to a position where, say, he gets AAA or AAB or ABB in Maths, Biology and CS.

Unless there were extenuating reasons for the 7 in gcse FM maths, it may be that he won't be quite good enough for the likes of imperial. That doesn't mean he can't do a maths degree at a good university but there's no point not being realistic.

3 A levels including FM are absolutely fine for many STEM degrees if they're good enough grades (dd did Cambridge engineering with two A stars and an A in physics, FM and maths). The 'breadth' thing seems to apply more to medicine and some economics degrees.

But it's risky to start out doing just 3 A levels including FM because a lot of students do find it too hard at A level, or they may change their mind on what degree they want to do. It's really poor of schools not to allow kids to start 4 A levels even if it's with the expectation they'll drop one at the first half term of Xmas.

Further Maths a level is harder than Maths, it's not just spending time doing a bit more Maths.

I found Maths GCSE easy, Maths A level easy and Further Maths A level a total nightmare. Scraped a C when everything else was an A.

It concerns me that his 7 was in Further Maths which hints it isn't going to be as easy as he thinks.

B because most people saying the others don't really see the language a level. This will then be 4 a levels. Or a with coding if this is a level 3 qual with ucas points, not if not. The music diploma likely also has points but some unis don't do ucas tariffs, grades only.

Music diplomas don't have ucas points because only Level 3 qualifications carry them. Grade 8 is Level 3 but a Diploma is Level 4/5 (depending which one it is)

DS is doing DipABRSM this winter. The motivation is not for earning ucas points so it's ok, though it would have been nice if it could have points.

My main concern for choosing only 3 including FM is exactly what others are saying - what if he didn't like FM or finds it too hard? I have just emailed the school asking if he could start with 4, even just for one term. They may say no but trying is better than not trying.

DipABRSM is Level 4, equivalent to 1st year of a degree. Your ds must be very talented and hard working to be at that level at age 16. To combine that with such good academics is no mean feat.

Has he thought what he'd do if he finds the A level maths harder than he expects or doesn't like it enough to want to do it at uni? Would his A level choices support an alternative that he might like?

I did fm and maths at a Russel group uni. Part of the first year was spent recapping fm as not everyone had done it so it definitely wasn’t needed. This was 20years ago so things may have changed.

How is it scaremongering if that is the entry requirements needed at some universities? Better to know now, before he’s made his choices. It totally depends where the OPs son wishes to go to and is worth researching the entry requirements of the ones he wants.
Attached is what Uni of Manchester required and ds wasn’t offered a place purely because he had a predicted grade of B in FM. Happily he went on to exceeded his teacher’s prediction but if you are not sure you can get an A in Further Maths it is sometimes better to just not take it.
The pressure did get to DS at times and tears were shed after his last paper when he thought he hadn’t done well enough. DS says he wishes he’d known and he may have taken an A level he thought he could do without half as much effort.

Just be glad you’re not in Wales where A Level Welsh Bacc was compulsory in DS’s school

Your original comment was If he wants to do a maths degree and takes A level FM he must get an A grade.

This is true at only some universities as you say in your second post, quoted here.

Your original statement was incorrect and scaremongering.

DS's 6th form only allow 3 a levels because that is university entrance requirement. He is doing maths, further maths and physics and will be applying for an engineering degree.

The idea that someone would want to do a maths degree but not take FM A-level because it might be a bit difficult is just bizarre. FM is a requirement for the top maths degrees, or if it's offered at your school, you might be asked to explain why you didn't take it.

The school is mad to not require FM students to take 4 subjects as some find it too difficult and then are tied into it if they only take 3.

My school would be very happy with a 9 for FM so I'm not sure that the 7 in FM GCSE means he's not suitable - how was it taught? As an add-on?

I think the language is a good idea. Ask the school to enter him for the exam, it gives them points in the league table.

Not many schools teach FM at GCSE so that usually starts from scratch at A Level.

Computer Science is logical and more mathsy at A Level so I think it goes well.

If the language will be reasonably easy for him then I'd say definitely do it or at least start it if he's doing 3 inc FM. Or I guess with the OPs support he could pick it up a bit later if the 3 school A levels aren't going great or he wants to broaden his uni options.
One of DDs friends was always set on maths - aced her A levels, got into Cambridge ... and found in the first year she didn't want to be a mathematician after all (tbf I think Cambridge maths is something else, somewhere else might have worked out ok). Fortunately she'd done a language as a 4th subject and was able to restart doing that plus an a priori language.

Has he discounted Physics?

The idea that someone would want to do a maths degree but not take FM A-level because it might be a bit difficult is just bizarre
The fear and worry of what if he finds FM A-level a bit difficult is mine, not his. He thinks he would be fine. But you never know how you feel until you actually start the work. This can be said for any combination but as FM (and possibly CS too) seems to have one of the highest rates of dropout, I am worried about the fact that he has only 3, not 4.

My school would be very happy with a 9 for FM so I'm not sure that the 7 in FM GCSE means he's not suitable - how was it taught? As an add-on?
He got 9 for Maths but 7 for FM. The school he attended didn't have FM course. He was given some FM material to do while others did Maths in their Maths lessons. He felt underprepared. But yes, that is exactly why I am worrying- 7 in FM GCSE may be an indication he may not be suitable. DS is more optimistic and he thinks he should be fine.

Given that extra information the 7 in FM does not indicate that he isn't suitable, just that he was not taught the syllabus properly.

If he got a 7 in maths taking both maths and fm is a risk.