A levels for medicine

[catbirddogchild]

Hi,
My DS ( currently year 10) is interested in doing medicine.
He is top of year in most subjects especially science and maths etc.
The issue is he is still quite young and not 100% on what he wants to do really.
Would doing chemistry, physics , maths and possibly further maths but not biology be a bad idea?
It would keep other doors more open to him such as engineering ect
Realistically do applicants get in medicine places without biology?

@RedHelenB well they've taken 4 students from my school alone in the last few years. They don't publish admissions stuff if it's not true.

@sashh you can only apply for 4 Medicine courses via UCAS. The 5th has to be something else. Same for vet and dentistry.

The thing to bear in mind with medical schools is that A-levels are not the only entry requirements- so yes, there are quite a few med schools that would take him with Chemistry/Maths/Physics, but they may have other entry requirements which he might not meet (e.g. high UCAT/BMAT scores, a high band on SJT, specific work experience requirements etc, GCSEs etc.). There also may be med schools he won't want to apply to!

As someone who teaches A-level Biology (so obviously I am a bit biased), I suggest that students who are really sure about medicine (or vet med or dentistry) do take both biology and chemistry, because not doing so does narrow their options when it comes to applying- if he's really not keen on biology, chemistry + physics or maths will keep the next highest amount of options open.

That said, he's in Y10 now! He doesn't need to finalize his A-level choices until after he gets his GCSE results (or really until the first term of sixth form). As long as he keeps the options open by doing well in sciences, maths and English, then at this stage he really doesn't need to be making any firm choices!

I would say that either maths, chemistry and biology would keep options open within engineering, too, though.

BMAT going in 2025. Not sure what those Unis will then do. UCAT or their own exam.

Cambridge are withdrawing from running it, but I wonder if another uni will take it on?

@Postapocalypticcowgirl I doubt it as Cambs stopping because it's so expensive to administer. Not sure any other Uni is richer !

Many years ago I did Maths, Further Maths, Chemistry and Physics and went on to do Dentistry. (I also did Business studies). I think I found the first year harder than the others because I hadn't done biology. I had to do a lot of work on my own to understand what was going on in Biochemistry. So I would definitely recommend doing Biology

I should think UCAT is much much cheaper because it is online and marked automatically - no exam papers to mark. Interestingly, a couple of doctors I spoke to don't like UCAT, so which is considered the better predictor of who would be a more suitable candidate for medicine? BMAT or UCAT?

@RampantIvy it's hard to say as Unis use them in different ways. But they have to split all those clever kids somehow.
Not sure anyone likes UCAT. It's horrible. But not sure what you can replace it with. It's a leveller as it doesn't require money or contacts.

How many do they take that haven't done any sciences at A level?

It will be a very small number, simply because anyone with no science A-Levels can only apply to one medical school for standard entry (plus possibly a couple of foundation years) and very few students would put themselves in such a high-risk position.

Newcastle's selection for interview us based on UCAT score only, offers are based on interview scores, and entry is based on meeting offer conditions (AAA unless contextual). So what your GCSEs and A-Level subjects are doesn't matter for that one choice. But it's very high risk to have only one choice.

It will be a very small number, simply because anyone with no science A-Levels can only apply to one medical school for standard entry (plus possibly a couple of foundation years) and very few students would put themselves in such a high-risk position.

Wow can you imagine doing that then not getting the UCAT or fluffing the interview.

I agree with you, I can't imagine anyone wanting to study Medicine would put themselves in such a vulnerable position.

The students who apply are the ones who took non science A levels and changed their minds to doing medicine during 6th form. More common than you'd think. And lots can also apply to Gateway courses with non science A levels if meet the right conditions (different for each course).
Newcastle do it to pick up those students who come to medicine late. And it works for them.

Oh, that's interesting @mumsneedwine. I would have thought that they must have to be exceptionally focussed to catch up on A level content of chemistry and biology because some prior knowledge will be assumed, surely? Or do these students do a foundation year first?

Wow can you imagine doing that then not getting the UCAT or fluffing the interview.

Students do the UCAT before applying to medical school @PritiPatelsMaker. Newcastle only select students in the top 2 deciles of UCAT results - usually over 2800, so if they get a low score they wouldn't apply.

DD studied biomedical sciences at Newcastle and had friends studying medicine. She said that during the first year they studied similar modules but the biomed students went into greater depth.

Students do the UCAT before applying to medical school @PritiPatelsMaker. Newcastle only select students in the top 2 deciles of UCAT results - usually over 2800, so if they get a low score they wouldn't apply

Perhaps I didn't explain properly. I meant that if a student chose to go into Medicine but didn't choose science A'levejs as some have suggested on this thread, they could then only apply to one Uni and then may not be able to apply due to low UCAT or may fluff the interview. If Medicine is even a consideration before 6th Form it just seems like a good idea to take the science A'Levels.

Mine is doing vet med potentially

she has done a level maths this year - year 11. In year 12 she is doing chemistry, biology, drama& theatre studies and religion & philosophy

I think that’s really interesting 🤔 and the ethics and religion is useful for ethics and dilemma and the drama useful for confidence and public side of the role.

I think her application will be ‘different’ but not wildly off beat

For engineering you must have maths and physics though

For engineering you must have maths and physics though

Not for all engineering courses though. DS has got maths but not physics. Yes, there are some Uni's that he can't apply to but there are some really good Unis where he can.

If still in year 10, one thing that might be useful is to become a St John cadet. Lots of opportunities for learning practical skills, teamwork, and, after the age of 16, doing first aid at events. Fantastic preparation for medicine interviews, but also fantastic for helping you work out that medicine isn't for you and you'd rather do engineering. My DD's St John experience made aspects of her first three years of medicine degree much easier, too.

@InSummertime most vet schools really don't care about the 3rd A level (DDs friend did drama and got 4 offers). You don't need 4, they won't look at the 4th at all. For vet applicants it comes down to work experience and the dreaded forms. Each Uni has a different format and they take ages to do. RVC needs to be submitted before Oct 15th (but they won't tell you that via email !).
Bristol don't interview so comes down to what you put all on that form.

@PritiPatelsMaker that's the thing though. Medicine isn't always an option before A levels. Some people only decide hen older that they want to do it, and Newcastle give the option now of applying rather than redo extra A levels.

Because a lot of biology is plant/animal biology and not related human biology.

PritiPatelsMaker that's the thing though. Medicine isn't always an option before A levels. Some people only decide hen older that they want to do it, and Newcastle give the option now of applying rather than redo extra A levels

I do get that totally mums but the OP is asking about a child in Y10 and some PPs are suggesting that they don't need any science. It just seems a bit foolhardy if Medicine and Engineering are the current 2 choices.

Hi , thank you everyone this has been interesting and helpful.
He will definitely be doing maths and science A levels as he is very STEM minded. Top of his year for maths and science subject without any stress at all. The issue is literally keeping options open.
The reason I wonder about biology rather than maths and physics alongside the compulsory Chemistry is based on so much being on plats ect, but physics and maths are needed with medicine.
He did a premedical session yesterday in London on dissection and enjoyed it and proved himself not squeamish so still an option.

but physics and maths are needed with medicine.

No they aren't.
Chemistry is usually required, biology is often required, maths and physics are useful, but not required.

But physics and maths are needed with medicine.

No they aren't.
Chemistry is usually required, biology is often required, maths and physics are useful, but not required.

You might be talking about two different things. Physics and maths aren't essentials in any medical school's entry requirements. However, there are aspects of medicine that involve a fair bit of understanding of physics and maths. Personally, I think GCSE level is fine for these. The trouble is that most students deliberately forget everything they've learned for one set of qualifications once they move on to the next set, so by the time they're 18 they might as well not have done GCSEs at all.