A Level options

[Clue1ess]

DS will be going into year 11 and will soon need to think about his A level options. I only made it as far as GCSEs, so I have no experience of further education, but I do understand the need to choose the subjects you enjoy, while keeping your options open.

He has provisionally chosen two subjects
Computer Science (favourite subject)
Mathematics (strongest subject)

The combination will then be a choice of

Combination A:
A/L Computer Science
A/L Mathematics
A/L IT
plus an compulsory enrichment subject (none of which appeals to him)

Combination B:
A/L Computer Science
A/L Mathematics
A/L IT
A/L Further maths (ds will not then be required to do an enrichment subject)

His first choice career would be a computer programmer and second choice would be accountant/finance.

I think combination A will narrow his options. But combination B might be too much for him. Maths is his strongest subject, but I believe you need to be passionate about it, which I don’t think he is.

On the other subjects, he hates all the sciences, English and most essay based subjects. He is getting high grades for Latin and French but not sure if he wants to take these any further.

Is he continuing at the same school or moving to a sixth form college? If 6th form, go to the open events, talk to the teachers, ask their advice. His current school should be offering careers advice, check with his Head of Year.

If he's got some ideas about possible universities or courses, look these up online, to find out their entry requirements, then you can work backwards from there. Good luck!

If he can do Further Maths then it would help with Computer Science.

When DS was looking, Imperial said that although it wasn't required, as not all schools offer it, a very high % of their intake had A level FM.

Not sure about IT but a language might be a good choice as LINUX etc are languages too.

Many sixth forms have rules about doing extra subjects, ultimately for many/most degree courses they only want three and the school most likely won't kick up a fuss if by the middle / end of yr12 he quietly drops the FM, especially if his overall grades are impacted by doing four.

As he isn't interested in the extracurricular stuff then I would go with the four and re evaluate when he has a good idea of what he wants to study and where at uni, keeping an eye on his grades. If the extracurricular is an EPQ some courses do drop a grade offer if he has a high grade in the EPQ so that might be worth considering but only if he is likely to put the effort in to get a high grade.

His first choice career would be a computer programmer and second choice would be accountant/finance.

I'm a qualified accountant. A levels really don't matter (I did Maths, Economics, Geography and English) but maths would be good. Although not all of my peers (at a big 4 firm) did A level maths.

I'd also pick a non finance degree as, perverse as it sounds, pure academic degrees are preferred.

So any of those A level choices would be fine for accountancy and finance.

Just to add having reread and reflected on your post again.

Perhaps adding a language or whatever else he likes might be a bit more balanced to demonstrate his all-round skills. I think his choice is fine but might benefit from being broader.

Computer science and IT seem too similar? I'm not sure taking both would be recommended.

Maths, FM and Comp Sci would be a good route to Comp Sci at uni (comp sci degrees like you to have FM).

Computer science and IT seem too similar? I'm not sure taking both would be recommended.

I always thought they were the same subject. Obviously not...

Do book a chat with the school to go through it all with him.

Unless he’s an absolute maths whizz and loves it, stay away from FM, it’s v hard and it derails people. Check if the enrichment subject counts towards his offers. But either way could he not do a language? If it doesn’t count, it doesn’t matter - just pick what he dislikes the least.

I don’t see that option A will narrow him anymore than option B?

I presume there isn’t too much crossover between computing and IT? Deeply ignorant question I know but worth asking unless you’re sure. If there is too much crossover, then French would be a good third A level. Nothing wrong with Latin either if he prefers it, any language is a good work out for the brain, and relevant if you want to programme, it’s just that French would give him the option of a uni year abroad or working there. Although presumably he could go for Latin A level and French as an enrichment subject, which would also keep studying in France open to him.

This was my thought too re IT & computer science.

Maths, FM & computer Science would be a strong combination if he is good enough at maths.

He could throw in an EPQ or an essay based subject or a further science for further breadth if capable?

Very different.

Computer Science - programming, systems, algorithms, Boolean algebra and binary.

In IT you learn to use a spreadsheet, in comp science you write a program that creates the spreadsheet.

OP IT is useless if he want to do a CS or computing degree. It's strange you say he doesn't like science because CS IS a science.

Maths is good too.

Maths is definitely important if going into programming.
In general though, most important is choices that your son will enjoy. That's where he will do best. Note the post above from the accountant. There are very few careers where you need a certain set of A levels. Let him choose his favourite subjects.
I'm someone you'd end up seeing if you came into see someone at the sixth form in my area, and that's my advice.

IT is on the table because he spends all his time on his computer and has no other interest/hobbies/extra curricular activities in anything else. So, IT would complement his love of CS, but yes, maybe too close in the same field.

Is Computer SCIENCE really a science subject? He loves SC but says he really hates all the science subjects, as he is taking all three GCSEs. Also, maths is his thing but he says he doesn’t understand physics, which I though was basically maths?

Thank you for this, I guess we didn’t think about a language as being useful for programming and silly that we didn’t even think about a language for possibly working abroad.

Some employers don't like computer science degrees. I worked for one, part of a bank, that wouldn't recruit cs grads. They taught them on 'needs to know' basis. However for the very technical stuff they recruited frombother disciplines including biochem, classics etc. I worked in database admin/design/support. The program specs were awful - we reckoned they'd get a clean compile in Cobol.

If he is looking at top grades at GCSE this will should lead onto top grades at A level, however noble will back this up but maths is a different matter and would depend on what grade they achieve at GCSE and their commitment to their studies at A level.

If he is looking at top unis for CS then they will want FM, they won't say that because they cannot discriminate against those who do not have it but the vast majority of those taking A levels and applying for CS will have FM. Info about that is found on What Do They Know website ie uni intake. But you have to love maths as half the timetable would be maths for 4 A levels. Ds is doing CS for degree, he says FM is a massive advantage and makes life easier for degree. Plus at A level it helps your maths A level knowledge.

You can take IT with CS for A level but at Ds's sixth form it isn't an A level but a diploma. I would advise him to think about another subject, what about something that isn't offered for GCSE? Look at the possible sixth forms and see what they offer.

Dd did French and Maths (and Biology) The only thing I'd caution with French is that not that many do it and a fair proportion who do are French speaking at home. So those who learn it as a second language are "competing" with those who have it as a first language. This makes the grade boundaries higher. Dd got a B in it (A in the other 2 subjects) She doesn't regret doing it though. It's a good subject to do and she still got into her first choice uni.

IT almost certainly not an A level and probs not a great choice tbh. Does he do IT at KS4? Is it a GCSE?

I agree, FM is the shout if he wants to do CS degree.

French is a great additional A level and if he hated it (or hated FM) then he could drop one. MFL is my subject so shout up or PM me if you want more info on the A level.

Hmm, lots there to think about.

He is hoping to stay on at the same school, so the teachers will know him best and can advise him. We are thinking about choices now so we’re not panicking when the time comes. School does not allow dropping AL subjects. You must do 3 AL, plus an enrichment subject or 4 AL without an enrichment subject.

Interesting about taking French if it’s not your first language and having to compete with French speakers.

Also, interesting to hear that some employers don’t like cs degrees.

Clary, IT is one of the AL choices. On the school website, it says it’s a Level 3 Cambridge extended certificate in IT. With a distinction carrying 56 UCAS points. This means nothing to me, is this a full AL?

Probably, leaning more towards CS, maths and further maths atm.

Sounds like an A level equivalent.

What about an essay subject? The subjects he is looking at are all maths/science based, what else is he good at?

That doesn't sound like an A level, and A level ICT has either been withdrawn or is about to become extinct.

If maths, further maths and comp sci are really on the cards for him, then I'd swerve ICT/IT, and consider either an enrichment subject (EPQ?) or add another A level - maybe French (because likes it), psychology (good complement for comp sci - user interface, but both science and essays, so perhaps not for him!) or something like art or graphics (game design)

I sounds like ICT BTEC and DC's school won't allow students to take this as well as Computer Science A Level. Even if your school does allow it, I'd look into how universities would view the combination of the 2 subjects.

DS hated essay subjects but tolerated geography - is that an option?
Or maybe economics.

Level 3 Cambridge extended certificate in IT.

That’s not an A-level. I mean as such that doesn’t mean it’s a disaster, but IT post-16 is just DULL. A friend used to teach it and hated it (at KS4 too).

Clary, IT is one of the AL choices. On the school website, it says it’s a Level 3 Cambridge extended certificate in IT. With a distinction carrying 56 UCAS points. This means nothing to me, is this a full AL?

It's not an A Level, CTEC (the short name for it) is similar to BTEC, equivalent to an A Level but not an actual A Level.

You need to look at the units being taught. CTEC and BTEC both have some compulsory modules and some optional units, the optional units are not chosen by the student but by the teacher.

And this depends on who is teaching it.

Although my PGCE is Computer Science (and yes it is science, it counts in progress 8 as a science) I have taught more Health and Social care.

So in HSC most students go on to nursing and other health careers, most universities accept the CTEC/BTEC BUT if you have not taken and passed the 'anatomy and physiology' unit then the uni ask for A Level biology, often at a high grade eg a B.

Have a look at some universities and see what they ask for, sometimes they will only accept certain combinations.

I've had a look at the units for the CTEC and I think your DS needs to look at it too.

He is hoping to stay on at the same school, so the teachers will know him best and can advise him.

Please also look at your nearest FE college, the school know him but they can only advise him on the subjects they teach. He also has a price attached to him, government funding is different for 16.19 and certain subjects (including maths and CS) attract more funding.

I should clarify my earlier comment, although Ds's sixth form will allow them to take IT and CS they really shouldn't. It is a low entry sixth form; you need 5 x grade 4 at GCSE to get in and some subjects such as maths or science you need a grade 6 to continue to A level and a 7 for further maths. Not everyone is heading to university and the sixth form accommodate that. Ds's mate took IT when he failed to achieve a grade 6 for maths so had to choose another subject on results day.

As I have said for top level universities for CS the applicants they take usually have FM if they have taken A levels. I agree that an essay based subject may be a good rounder for your Ds. Definitely look at other sixth forms too just to see what they offer. Ds took maths, fm, physics and computer science for A level. Look ahead to universities, see what they want and maybe contact an admissions department for advice. Be aware that an entry grade ie A⃰ AA is aspirational for some and an insurance (not performed as well as they hoped) for another. So although the entry may be A⃰ AA the number of successful applicants with that grade profile is a much smaller number than those with A⃰ A⃰ A⃰ A⃰ then A⃰ A⃰ A⃰ and A⃰ A⃰ A.