Deciding on a degree

[Hellohah]

DS is Year 12, so has a bit of time for this, but his college are currently using the personal tutor hour each week for sorting personal statements.

He has no idea what he wants to do, well he has a list relevant to his A Levels and has yayed and nayed them, but it leaves 5 subjects plus various Engineering degrees that he is considering.

Anyone else with a DC who knew they wanted to go to university but no idea what to study or where? And it all worked out?

The choice is overwhelming and it's sort of getting him down a bit, he sits and has a look online and then holds his head in his hands.

His path seemed decided during school as he's always been good at Maths and that's where his natural ability lies, but he absolutely loves History. He talks about it all the time, but it's his worst subject out of the 3.

I have suggested concentrating on his A Levels and not applying, taking a year out and working and then applying with grades, but he says this isn't possible if he decides Maths is his thing, as a year doing no Maths would serve as a huge disadvantage.

Has he visited universities at all? I think it could really help. It somehow crystallised things in ds's mind a bit more.

I have to say that most history tutors would absolutely love a history student with decent maths skills! Does he like economic history? I loved it - learning all about subsistence food crises and looking at corn prices and stuff, but I'm practically innumerate so really struggled with some of it.

Would some form of Historical, Social and Political Sciences suit him perhaps?

I see that Exeter for example have a Flexible Honours type programme where you can combine subjects in a more US major/minor type way. St Andrews too. I doubt they're the only places to do that.

I agree with you about a year out, but you might need to find a Maths academic to tell him the same thing! Could he email one?

He could spend the year off doing Maths work - tutoring, or a course, eg some coding and then working in programming.

It might be worth looking at a couple of universities. Be prepared to spend the day there (we did this and I actually enjoyed myself), let him check out and choose some courses to enquire about (if only to rule them out).

If there anything he enjoys doing or is passionate about? He won't necessarily need all three A levels choice to be relevant to the course, so don't feel he should be making sure use of them. My DD has an A level which has absolutely nothing to do with her Degree and she still got five offers.

@PermanentTemporary @Madmog
Thank you both, visiting actually makes perfect sense now you've both mentioned it. He did go to Oxford for a few days in Year 10 as part of a raising aspirations programme (he attended a really poor high school) and has mentioned there as a possible due to this alone.

I also work at a University, so have access to so many academics, I can definitely approach some and see if they would be willing to talk to him (did not think of this).

There are loads of Computer courses, just did a quick google, Computer Science is one of the subjects he has as a possible, and tutoring is a great idea. He did help 2 of his friends through Maths GCSE as they were failing badly and he was honestly so much happier that they both passed Maths than he was with his own grades, so I imagine tutoring would appeal to him.

I will look at Exeter and St Andrews, although he doesn't want to move THAT far from home (he says).

He is passionate about History, I am of the opinion he does the thing he loves, but he is trying to balance his entire school life of teachers telling him he should do Maths against his love for History. Nobody ever told him he was a natural at History :(

Oh he should absolutely follow his passion. Three years is a very, very long time to be doing something you are 'meh' about.

But yes, being good at maths is a great thing and why not try to do both? The History and Philosophy of Science dept in Cambridge is notoriously full of people who coerced themselves into a science degree because it was 'sensible' and they were good at it and found they hated the reality. But their work in that area depends on them knowing the science well.

My ds is aiming for computer science and it's a great hit for him, he enjoys maths and doesn't struggle with it but loves the real world problem solving of Compsci and the fantastical element too, anything is possible kind of stuff.

I do think if you love history thees nothing else that quite does it. Woukd he be interested in the history of maths?? I really like tech and industrial history/archaeology but don't understand the tech side which is a bit of a weakness...

What does he like about History? Is he interested in knowing things or arguing about them?

He could as others say do perhaps Combined Honours Social Sciences at Durham or Liberal Arts at Bristol or PPE perhaps. If he likes history then politics may also appeal and then his maths is used in the economics. Have a look at the LSE courses available too as there are a variety of economics/humanities courses.

@raspberrymuffin

What does he like about History? Is he interested in knowing things or arguing about them?

Yes potentially law may be worth a look

Thank you all for backing me up in saying he should follow his passion.

About History, he likes both the knowing and arguing. He is very much of the opinion, as a species, we do not learn from our mistakes and likes looking for patterns (which I guess is the maths in him).

I have written these things down and will have a look online in my lunch break.

I do think the big message is 'it's possible to pick the 'wrong' uni course and survive'. Take a good guess. Try to keep a few options open. Lots of people take a scenic route. If he does decide to do a Maths undergraduate degree, great - he doesn't have to stick to Maths only for the rest of his life. There's also options to change course. I know you know all this but I just feel so much for these young people who hear other people explaining their life choices backwards and making it all sound inevitable when the truth is that although it's important to make a decision that makes SOME kind of sense, roundabout routes are pretty common.

Worth looking at combined honours. DS loves maths and didn’t know what else he wanted to do so has applied for various maths & stats degree’s. The one he’s got an offer for at Warwick is called MORSE and is a maths, operational research, stats and economics. It’s a good mix of other subjects and is well regarded in the city, banking sector

I work for a uni which teaches econ history. Strong reputation and great academics. And not too big

My DS is vacillating between maths and music at the moment. (yes I know there are some places where you can combine them)

I think they really need open days to start getting their heads around what university might really be about.

Both Oxford and Cambridge maths departments have open days coming up in about a month - Oxford in person (need to register - some sessions full already last weekend when we looked), Cambridge online.

Have a look at History departments ditto.

Most universities and courses seem to have lots of information available online, I think students need to find some time to allow themselves to explore and go down rabbit holes and then step back and think about what is really grabbing their interest.

And then yes, remember that any good degree can take you in lots of different directions down the track.

Scottish Universities do 4 year undergrad degrees with a broader base, so you take 3 subjects in your first and second years and can explore a bit more. 4 years can be off-putting funding wise, but a lot waive the 4th year tuition fees for English students.

I have a lot of sympathy for young people in this position. It is so difficult to discover potential careers apart from the things your parents and teachers do.
It can be infomative to pick one product that you use and try to find out all the various jobs that are involved in creating it. So you could pick up a tub of ice-cream or a packet of crisps and list the market-researchers, food technicians, testers, chemists (synthetic and analytical), patent administrators, purchasers, product designers, manufacturing engineers, quality-control engineers, packaging designers & engineers, distribution managers, marketing managers, accounts administrators, etc., etc. who would have been required for it to get to the shop, even ignoring all the office staff who would be required for any product or service.
Although the National Careers Service leaves an awful lot to be desired, looking at their web site to explore families of careers can be a reasonable starting point: nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/explore-careers.
Having some idea of careers you might want to pursue makes choosing a degree much easier.

My DS was in the same position last year. School trying to get him writing a PS when he had not a clue what to study (nor even which A levels he'd be doing, as he had to decide which one of his four to drop). Since then, he's settled on a course and seems very happy with that choice (so far at least). It was useful to go to a couple of open days and attend talks for lots of subjects. That helped him articulate what he did and didn't like about those subjects, and the A levels he was doing. He was still too freaked out by it all to be proactive about anything, but I did some research and found a course that seemed to offer what he liked. He looked at it and immediately thought that would be OK. Sorted.

I am a former Russell Gp STEM admissions tutor. So I love maths, and if your DS did, also, that would be one thing. But his passion is history. These differences are what make young people so interesting.

To what extent is history his worst subject? Is it simply less strong, or is it problematic? Your DS sounds very analytical and interested in precedents and patterns. I am thinking that if his written and verbal communications skills are good, or could be improved, he may have the makings of a gifted lawyer. Amongst other things. That need not mean writing wills or working for a staid City firm. The career can be wide ranging

People don’t use the phrase ‘a natural historian’, so I wouldn’t worry about that.

And of course if your DS is interested in maths I think that is marvellous. If he wants to consider a gap year he should contact the admissions tutors where he wants to apply to see what they would think of this. The worry is that students will have forgot what they know but in my opinion the good ones hold their knowledge more deeply. I don’t think he should do maths just because it is the safer choice. In STEM these are the students who run out of steam and have all sorts of problems. They frequently end up with 2.2 degrees, which no longer open doors.

My advice regarding a degree is to be logic in this day and age. I have known some people go into a Art degree but struggled to find jobs although they are passionate in that area. Sometimes it's about into a field where the jobs are. For example I did my degree in education with significant experience working in primary schools. I then went on to do a PGCE to teach that subject area in further education. Sadly I found the teaching sector quite difficult to break into as there wasn't enough jobs in my subject area. As result I ended up being told in many interviews that I lacked experience! I then decided to be abit savvy! You can go into different things with a degree so I decided to train as a councillor in education as there are far many jobs in mental health now (this is where the jobs are) so it's about keeping your options open!

I think this really depends on what his A level grades are likely to be. History at a lower level university because he had a B/C in it, won’t be as good for future employment as a maths degree where a A/B is required. Maths grads are simply better placed for jobs.

Then look at what jobs each degree can lead to. What might interest him regarding a job? Look beyond liking history? Where does history lead him? Maths is a better intro to any job requiring someone to be numerate. However lots of jobs like history grads who can analyse the written word. However Durham history grads are seen as different to Anytown university history grads.

If he likes maths: think about a management degree. Bath is great for this type of course. Business would be a possibility and Law. As there are going to be so many grads in the market for jobs, I would keep employability central. History can be great but it can also be a hobby.

My son was the same, settled on looking at maths & stats degrees as he is very good at maths. His 1st choice is a course called MORSE which is maths, stats, economics. Worth looking at it, I think maybe another Uni does it too

warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/statistics/courses/morse/

Even if he's good at Maths, he's got to love it to survive a Maths degree. It's very heavy going. My son was good at Maths and got his A* at A level, but he doesn't live & breath it, and was adament he didn't want to do a Maths degree, but wasn't wowed by anything else either, so he compromised by doing Financial Maths which he thought would be less heavy going on the Maths theory etc. Unfortunately, he's still had compulsory modules in the "hard" maths, i.e. the theoretical concepts of pure maths, etc., which he's really struggled with and now heavily regrets taking that degree, and could well be swapping to an accounting/finance/economics degree instead which interests him more, but less heavy in the conceptual maths.

My ds really had no idea. He didn't do well in his S5 exams (we're in Scotland) so was doing some resits in S6. His mental health was terrible. He had a vague idea about going to Art school but the portfolio course was virtual and he really didn't get on with it.

So he got a job, as a home carer, visiting elderly people in their homes, helping with washing and dressing, medication, meals etc. it totally transformed him, and he decided after a few months to apply for nursing. Unfortunately he had missed the ucas deadline, so he got a different job, in a care home, and he's loved that too.

Applied again this year and has got a place on his first choice course, starts in September. He's 20 but a totally transformed young man, and pretty much everyone thinks he's going to be an excellent nurse.

I think the extra time has given him a chance to mature and find his niche. Good lunch to your ds!