Maths/Further maths & how schools differ in teaching these

[O2HaveALittleHouse]

My teen wants to study maths and further maths at A-level and on track for a 9 in GCSE.

A large number study maths (>50%) at the highly academic 6th form attached to the school but very few see FM through to the exam (

The FM group are taught as a separate class and do 9 hours a week. Maths students get 4.5. No setting. Very different kind of school, good comp. Take-up of FM quite low but unusual to lose more than one. That completion rate is shocking.

Is there a difference in the entrance requirements to do FM which could account for this? eg One requiring an 8/9, and the other letting people do FM on a 7?

How do you know the original cohort size for FM? I'm not sure you do mean that less than 10% of those who start it go onto take the exam do you?

it sounds as if 10% of either the whole year group, or 10% of those that do Maths, also do FM which seems pretty realistic.

When I did FM (not recently!) those of us doing it were in a class together. All of us completed, over half getting an A (highest grade at the time). We had 11 hours/fortnight for maths and further maths; those doing single maths had 9 hours a fortnight, so it was treated as one option timetable-wise. Entry to further maths was selective, and we were expected to work at speed. There were 9 of us in the class - we had excellent teachers, and the school was committed to making it work. I would say it was a successful approach.

I’m with @titchy. The 5-10 % can’t represent the kids taking FM that take the FM exam. It has to be the number of kids taking maths that are also taking FM or the number of kids taking FM out of entire year.

You’d have to speak to the school but students doing FM need to work more quickly through M. So IME it is more usual not to mix the M and FM kids.

Speak to them and if child desperate to stay at that school, perhaps get a tutor.

Sorry I was really confusing! The usual statistic is about 5% of the 6th form do the further maths exam and the maths percentage is well over 50% (most popular choice). Anecdotally DC drop out of FM but I don’t have the exact number. Thanks to Covid, there hasn’t been any information session! I may have to call and become that parent.

I will ask my DC re entry level for FM at the school. The other school asks for 7/8 for their own pupils but take in quite a few so in essence most have 8/9 as they are pretty selective.

Many moons ago.....
I was taught maths in the dame class as people doing FM. They were taught as 2 separate subjects, in parallel.

DH was taught in a FM class. They spent the L6 doing maths, then U6 doing FM.

That sounds a much more normal amount! Quite good actually to get 5-10% of the entire cohort doing FM.

Before A levels were decoupled it used to be the case that the modules in M and FM were combined and the best ?6 made up the final M grade and remaining ?6 the FM grade, so it made sense to teach M and FM together. I don't think they can do that any more so I don't particularly see the issue with teaching separately.

And it isn't usual to put A level classes into sets - they all should be bright and they all do the same exam at the end of the day unlike GCSE where there are different tiers and a much wider ability range.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the organisation of FM. The key is both places offer FM. Look at the other advantages and disadvantages to decide the rest. Does the school sixth form have enough maths teachers, does the other place? Is the school sixth form more nurturing because they know ds or does he need a fresh start?

It is unusual to set for maths at A Level, they're all bright enough.

Thanks everyone. Both schools are very good: the other one is more middle class and has better Oxbridge entry stats, my child’s school is more socially mixed, definitely more urban and quirky.

From what is written here, it doesn’t really matter what way they teach FM so I will allow DC full choice. I think the vote will be to stay.

My DS is doing maths & further maths and does his A levels this year. So his school used to have the FM kids in one class and what they did was taught all the maths in year 12 and all the FM was in year 13. With the exam done in year 12 for maths. But with covid they didn’t do that for DS’s year so he’s had the lessons split. It’s worked fine for him.

We've had experience of both approaches.

DS did Maths and Further Maths in parallel, then both exams in Y13; DD did Maths A Level in Y12 and Further Maths in Y13.

However in both cases the DC doing Further Maths were in a class together for Maths too.

There is a huge jump from GCSE Maths to A Level. Lots of DC who were good at GCSE struggled at A Level. The FM Maths classes moved very quickly so the DC needed to be able to keep up.

For the school that mixes the Maths class up - I don't get how that would work on a practical level - how do their results compare?