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Further education

You'll find discussions about A Levels and universities on our Further Education forum.

Original poster

Having to do four A levels if studying further maths

64 replies

user1471443411 · 02/02/2022 20:23

My daughter is in the process of applying for A levels and wants to do further maths. It turns out that of the three places she wants to apply to, two only let you study further maths if you do four A levels. There aren't any other subjects she really wants to do as she dislikes writing essays.
Does anyone know if, in general, schools will let you drop your fourth subject at an early date? Is this requirement put in place in case people struggle with further maths, so that they have something to fall back on?

OP posts:
OakleyStreetisnotinChelsea · 02/02/2022 20:29

It is understandable really, otherwise you are doing maths and maths and one other subject which isn't particularly well rounded at all and doesn't leave any wriggle room if ideas about start to do at uni etc change (I'm assuming uni here due to the subject choice). Narrowing down your life options so much at age 16 doesn't seem like the best idea.

Not the question you asked i realise.

Original poster
user1471443411 · 02/02/2022 20:51

Thanks for replying - yes, I see your reasoning, in that if she goes to university to study maths, she will probably need to write essays, so it is important to develop these skills? I think she is going to (grudgingly) go for either BTEC IT or Criminology as her fourth options depending on which sixth form/college she decides to go to.

OP posts:
MaizeAmaze · 02/02/2022 21:02

Agree with the above - it is as much about breadth as anything else.
Physics is about half maths, and Chemistry is pretty low on essays too. What is her third subject?

Original poster
user1471443411 · 02/02/2022 21:12

Third subject is Chemistry. She thought about Biology but found out there was a long essay question in one of the exams which put her off.

OP posts:
Georgie8 · 02/02/2022 21:12

What A levels is she thinking of doing alongside maths? Does she want to go to uni? If so, what would she want to study?

Commonly students who do maths will also do further maths and two other subjects, which don’t necessarily need to be essay based. Another science?

Politics, Psychology, Sociology, Business Studies, Economics etc. are all good.

Georgie8 · 02/02/2022 21:14

Sorry, this crossed over with @user1471443411

MaizeAmaze · 02/02/2022 21:16

Physics would sit very nicely with Chem, Maths and FM......

CloudPop · 02/02/2022 21:16

Isn't further maths always a 4th A Level ?

AnnaMagnani · 02/02/2022 21:17

If she's already doing Chemistry I'd strongly recommend Physics.

There's masses of overlap and Physics will make the Mechanics aspect (which I never really understood) of Further Maths a lot easier.

MotherOfCrocodiles · 02/02/2022 21:20

She should do a 4th for balance and because some people bomb further maths.

Math, further maths, physics and chemistry is the classic combo and is less work than any other 4 (assuming she is good at maths of course!). If she is already doing maths, further maths and chemistry, physics won't add much work as the overlap is considerable,

Original poster
user1471443411 · 02/02/2022 21:20

She wants to study maths at university (obviously this could change) and eventually become a police officer. Subjects maths, further maths, chemistry. DD recently went for an interview and was told she would have to do a fourth, and the teacher suggested a social science like psychology, cue much upset! I might suggest Economics, thanks Georgie8, but not sure offhand if it's offered at the place's she's applied to.

OP posts:
FusionChefGeoff · 02/02/2022 21:22

When I did them, physics and maths were basically 1.5 A levels as there was so much cross over. Felt like a little secret when everyone was saying 'oh wow that's a lot' as 2 of the modules (out of 8) were basically identical and another 2 were very similar.

MotherOfCrocodiles · 02/02/2022 21:22

Ok she should also check entry requirements for her preferred degree course.

Original poster
user1471443411 · 02/02/2022 21:26

Thanks all I didn't see all these replies when I posted. Yes, I thought physics would be an obvious one but I think she's been put off by some of the physics teachers, I agree it is a good overlap with the mechanics side of things.

OP posts:
Revengeofthepangolins · 02/02/2022 22:53

Totally makes sense to do physics with maths and FM. Those 3 behave like barely more than 2 (assuming good enough at math fir FM, obvs). Would foolish not to strongly consider physics. And would strengthen her maths application.

Revengeofthepangolins · 02/02/2022 22:54

And yes, I think schools like them to have something fall back on if they plough FM. It is v hard and some people mistakenly take it as given that if they are getting 9s at gcse, FM will be fine.

TeenPlusCat · 03/02/2022 14:22

I think if she wants to be a police officer then something like sociology / psychology or something could be helpful.

I personally see nothing wrong with 2 maths & chemistry only but it doesn't leave any wiggle room if the maths gets too hard. (I did 2 maths & physics years and years ago).

You don't write essays in maths degrees (or at least I never did).

Original poster
user1471443411 · 03/02/2022 18:12

Thanks TeenCat she'll be pleased to hear about that (no essays in maths degrees).

OP posts:
poetryandwine · 04/02/2022 14:36

Have confirmed with Maths Prof DH that little to no essays at his Russell Group School either.

Until recently I was a STEM School Admission Tutor and we had many applicants with three A Levels including FM.
I agree that if OP’s DD needs a fourth Physics is likely easiest because of the overlap. But Psychology would be an excellent choice for a Police career. Most important thing is to do something she will be motivated to keep up with.

RedskyThisNight · 08/02/2022 17:12

I did maths, further maths and chemistry back in the dark ages. If she's fairly sure she wants to study maths, there is no reason to have to do a 4th. And I absolutely would not have wanted to do Physics, so I'm with your daughter on holding out against it.

OnTheBenchOfDoom · 08/02/2022 18:10

I never did this personally but Ds1 did 4 A levels the 4th being FM. He says that it doesn't show a breadth of knowledge over 2 A levels, FM shows all the skills that maths gives you, it's like an implied knowledge since you needed to do maths for FM. He did physics and computer science too so has an understanding of what was required for those.

It is not really seen as a broad enough range of A levels which is why it is commonly a 4th A level.

About half Ds's FM class dropped it to bring their maths grade up however for FM you only needed a 7 for maths at GCSE and a 6 for maths A level. Ds thinks it should have been higher grades. He got a 9 and was an A* in both maths and FM all the way through. He is not sure about the other FM class as there were two.

Ds is in his first year at uni doing computer science where the electives are maths classes with the other maths degree students.

TizerorFizz · 09/02/2022 20:44

I know a number of recent maths students at RG with Maths, FM and one other subject. Commonly Physics or Chemistry. Elite unis might want 4, but M,DM snd P would definitely be fine for many universities and lots of engineering degrees would be possible to as well as physics. Getting 3 top grades is better than 4 lower owned.

DontKeepTheFaith · 09/02/2022 20:49

Ds1 did maths, further maths and physics, no 4th A level. He is at Oxford studying Engineering so didn’t hold him back. He always knew he was headed for engineering so A levels were tailored to that.

Ds2 did FM as a 4th A level but dropped it as he just found the timetabling and homework too much with 4 A levels.

2DemisSVP · 09/02/2022 20:50

Get her to look at her school’s copy of HEAP, and look at the entrance requirements for Maths degrees, and she’ll be able to quickly see which will accept FM as third A level , and if any require 3 plus FM. I’m just helping a student who did Maths, FM and One other, and now can’t get on to the courses he wants to do. It’s not insurmountable but does limit options. So might as well just check now.

VinoEsmeralda · 09/02/2022 20:52

My DS been offered place a Cambridge and Warwick (Math) for Oct 2022 with Ma, Fm and Ph.

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