DS computer science and maths A level dilema

[mamapama]

My DS is looking at A level choices and is really interested in Computer Science and has keen interest in programming, he is not so interested in doing Maths at Alevel, would this limit his choices going forward to university if he does not do maths A level? As he is thinking about computer science at uni.

@ChloeDecker
Perhaps Oxford has tightened the requirement since last year?

I reread and there is no “normally” stated on the Oxford Computer Science Degree admissions page. It says

“Candidates are expected to have Mathematics to A-level (A* or A grade), Advanced Higher (A grade), Higher Level in the IB (score 7) or another equivalent.”

“Further Mathematics is highly recommended.* Those taking Further Mathematics A-level or AS-level are expected to achieve at least Grade A.”

“*If your school offers Further Maths A-Level we expect you to have taken it. However, we understand that not all schools offer Further Maths, and so we do consider applications from people with a single Maths A-level. If you are based in England, and your school doesn't offer Further Maths please see the Advanced Mathematics Support Programme website as they can provide extra maths support. In Wales, see the Further Mathematics Support Programme Wales.

Please note from 2018-20, 97% of A-level students who were offered places for Computer Science courses (including joint courses) took Further Maths to A-level.”

Jeez if you've got top grades maths further maths / and computer science then essentially you can do what you like :D

Incidentally I work for an IT company now, and in my previous role worked closely with the software (dev) company we used (elsewhere in europe) and an offshore team elsewhere in the world.

I mean things will change obv between now and DS graduating!

I don't know if he has talked about with people in IT roles etc and maybe it's a bit early anyway!

For me it's a mixed view. On dev for a career.

IF it's the same as when I was young IE maths tends to be more applied and FM more pure.

I would think FM is more useful than maths so both is better, in for a penny in for a pound!

Can you still do 4?

@ChloeDecker

Your links also say ‘normally’, even at the top of the second one. One of the students was straight Computer Science and the other Computer Science with Philosophy. Neither had Maths A Level. They did of course, pass the MAT. My students were also from disadvantaged backgrounds, which may have also played a part but they did get places.

I must say I'm very surprised by that result. Did they have some other maths background?

Because the most recent admissions report, available here: www.cs.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/admissions_statistics/public_report_2020.html
states quite firmly that Maths A level 'or equivalent' is essential:

For the Computer Science degrees, Mathematics is essential at A-level or equivalent. Further Mathematics is very strongly recommended. Computer Science/Computing can be helpful and interesting if available, but it is by no means a requirement: tutors are just as happy for applicants to explore their interest in the subject outside of the school curriculum

And that in that year's process,

All shortlisted A-level applicants offered A-level Mathematics

I don't know about admissions from. Not sure of how they do it. Comprehensive/ certain areas etc.

What I have read is that in some cases they will look at results overall from their school and see if their grades are excellent for that school.

I really massively doubt they would think not having a must have subject was something they would consider. Maybe exceptional circs.

Mainly because there's a reason that the required subjects are required.

They are key to the degree and if you have not done them you will be screwed. You will be lacking the foundations that are built on. Unless a massive genius you will really struggle. Loads of things will be assumed knowledge that you have never come across.

I just can't see that happening. It's not fair on the student.

Imagine trying to do a degree in physics without a level. It would be horrific. Even if you were working on the a level syllabus in spare time. You wouldn't understand the lectures and so would always be playing catch up.

Or in fact physics without maths.

And without FM even. It's going to be harder.

And in the period 2018-2020, 97% of those offered places at Oxford after A levels had FM A level as well: www.cs.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/why_oxford/standard_conditional_offers.html

He should also look at places offering Software Engineering rather than Computer Science; they may have slightly less strict requirements on Maths. If he is looking at a career in programming then a software engineering degree is arguably more useful as computer science is often quite theoretical and not always immediately applicable on-the-job.

I doubt Oxford would accept students onto their Computer Science degree without Maths A level (and ideally Further Maths). It would be massively difficult to keep up with the teaching!

There is a really useful thread on The Student Room where it gives a list of Computer Science degrees that don’t require A level maths: www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5007920

Yeah would recommend maths at A level - most computer science courses will probably require it! But the best way is for him to decide some uni courses he likes the look of because they will have requirements on their websites

My DD is doing CS at university. Her A-levels were CS, Maths, Physics.

Just to add to this Oxford want you to pass the MAT. Ds used the past MAT papers as practise for a maths entrance exam. The MAT is taken in November of year 13 so those taking A level maths are much more likely to pass it although saying that it is still a difficult paper.

All fine saying you don't need a maths A level for Oxford but the MAT proves a higher level of ability for maths. Plus just because a course says we want A*AA doesn't mean that is what they take in, usually there are students on much higher grades. Oxford ask for AAA but take 40%+ at 3 A stars or higher for some courses.

If he doesn't like maths and won't get a grade 8 or 9 at GCSE then taking it for A level will be soul destroying. A 7 at GCSE will likely produce a C/D. He is limiting his compsci applications to unis as a lot of the top ones want maths but this does depend on what his potential A level grades will be anyway and whether these are out of reach.

My ds is in year 13, isn’t doing maths A level and is applying to do CS at uni. He is doing CS A level.
@PaddingtonPaddington posted a good link there. As someone on that forum pointed out, if a degree course doesn’t require maths A level, the necessary maths will be part of the course.
CS courses are very diverse and some are much less mathematical than others. Not having maths A level does limit the choice of courses, but there are still plenty of options out there, and if you didn’t want to do maths A level you surely wouldn’t want a maths-heavy degree course anyway.