Architecture... is it worth the 6 years of study?

[HermioneMakepeace]

Our DS had his Career Interview at school. Prior to that, he had an assessment (they all did) to try to work out what would be a suitable career given the child’s aptitude, interests and personality.

Based on the results, the Careers Advisor suggested architecture. DS has expressed in the past that he would like to go into architecture so we were really happy to have this validated by the computer and the Careers Advisor.

However, since the interview yesterday, DS has looked into it and decided the 6 years of study is ‘not worth it’. He now has no idea what he wants to do.

So I thought I would ask on here if anybody in the field would recommend architecture as a career?

Thanks.

Well I am not an architect but I know that architecture is extremely competitive and a great many dedicated, enthusiastic and talented hopeful architecture wannabes who start off on those 6 years will fall by the wayside and not make it to being an actual architect (there are related careers like being an architectural technician or architectural assistant which can be done instead by those who don't make the grade). So someone who is hoping for an easy life definitely won't make it. Thinking that it's "Not worth it" to invest the time needed to learn a profession will close an awful lot of other careers off too. It's not unusual in vast numbers of careers to take several years of formal or informal training after getting an initial degree before one can practice the function fully independently and unsupervised. Architecture may be at the formal end of this but if he's not willing to invest time of this sort of scale, he will be limiting himself to quite basic, relatively easy to master and therefore relatively low-status and low-pay jobs.

He may want to take a look at architectural engineering and perhaps the Bath prospectus for options they have that are similar which are 4 year masters degrees. eg.

www.bath.ac.uk/courses/undergraduate-2021/civil-engineering/meng-civil-and-architectural-engineering/

My DP is an architect and as a bit of a reality check, if you think it’s actually designing stunning buildings etc... dream on. Very very very few people are doing that. The vast majority will be working on large scale construction projects; dealing with tiny elements. You’ll be completely creatively curtailed by penny pinching QSs saying “no not that needs to be a cheaper option” (that Was me and it was how we met!) structural engineers tend to have more say in those projects and don’t get me started on dealing with arsehole contractors.
There’s also likely a lot of contract administration.
The pay isn’t as brilliant as you’d maybe expect.

You can do an apprenticeship in architecture which leads to a degree. E.g. UWE do one.
Entry requirements much lower, employer support etc. Takes a bit longer.

What about something like quantity surveying?

Quantity surveying is a great degree to do. Lots of career options, in construction and in other industries.

6 years of training in an understatement.

3 years undergrad degree
1 year part 1 placement (minimum)
2 years masters degree

Then comes the final steps before qualifying, this is a minimum 1 year part 2 placement and then a year long part 3 course to gain the professional qualification. Very few people move straight onto part 3 after part 2 as you need the right balance of experience and the drive to put the effort into the part time course.

From start to finish I qualified after 7.5 years because I wanted to get it all out the way so I could get pregnant. There was nobody else from my masters cohort who qualified this quickly.

In my office it took people the following to qualify from start to finish
9.5 years
8 years
8 years
9 years
8 years
14 years
10 years

As you can see it takes a very long time!

Best advice is for him to have to some work experience so he can see what the work actually entails.

That aside the hours are bloody long. Over time is never paid. I have a mid level position and regularly work 60+ hour weeks for about 35k pa. It definitely a lifestyle choice rather than a 9-5 job. I do like how easiest I could go self employed though.

The hours expected in the undergrad course were also pretty horrific. All nighters were a fairly regular occurrence. When we complained to the uni we’d get too that if we worked 8am - 10pm everyday then we wouldn’t have to do all nighters. Which is a bit of a shit response really. You have to really really want to do it to do well. One guy was very insistent that he would only every do uni work 9-5 and he got a third. Not everywhere is like that but a lot of places are.

I remember being really annoyed in first year when all my other friends who’d gone to uni were having a ball any not having to put much effort in an I was slaving away.

@Inaquandry19

Quantity surveying is a great degree to do. Lots of career options, in construction and in other industries.

I wish I'd done it actually! I've ended up working with a QS and it sounds so interesting, not all sitting behind a desk etc.

I've worked with a lot of architects, very few of them in the career they expected. They ended up working as lecturers, project and site managers, bid coordinators and designers (products and fit out). It generally takes a lot longer than 6 years and the pay is not what people think and if you strike out on your own there's a huge amount of admin and insurance issues to grapple with as well. The happiest architect I know has become a professional architectural photographer and he says he earns more doing that than he probably would if he'd remained an architect. I think you need to be truly passionate about it to make it work, if he is then go for it. If not I'd delve into what elements made them point him that direction and see where they apply in other industries.

Can agree with the above statement. Daughter done her part 2. Now in practice on training programme for part 3 but failed the exam. Said she took it too early.
One of the top ones on the course at uni. Drop out rate at uni is high or should say. Just do part 1 don't continue to part 2.
Think she has spells enjoys it and days when she hates ut. Definitely a lifestyle choice.

I agree with the "how many years" reality check. A lot of professions are degree, then post-grad qualification and on-the-job training. It's just that the sections are split therefore it's not so obvious.

When I last looked, Quantity Surveying could mostly only be done at a certain type of University, not the sort of University that someone with Architect-worthy grades would normally apply to. As an alternative, you can do a degree at somewhere prestigious and then do a surveying Masters but then that costs more.
RICS is missing a trick regarding the Universities that it partners with.

I suppose a more relevant question is why does architecture appeal to him? Does he have a passion for design and ... well, architecture? Or is it just cos it sounds interesting/ cool?

What are his passions? His strengths? Perhaps he’d be better off doing a more general degree that would open up a range of career opportunities (eg engineering if he’s into the tech/maths side of things or something design related if he’s leaning towards the creative/ artistic).

I completely disagree with the first reply, ruling out architecture doesn't mean he will be stuck in a low-level, low-paid job in any way, shape or form. It is actually a very rational assessment as quite literally, it may not be a good investment of time or money to study architecture.

There are plenty of career choices where you can get started and earn money without racking up years and years of student debt, and still rise to a very senior level.

In fact you don't necessarily even need to go to university. I'm thinking of a friend who left school at 18 and joined an accountancy firm, he is now late 30's and a Director of an accountancy firm with a £120k annual salary. He is "nothing special" - he just made smart choices early on about what he wanted to do in life. He was able to buy a house in his early 20's as he had income and a good credit history and permanent full time job (he worked alongside his accountancy qualification, akin to an apprenticeship, really). He can afford to retire at 55.

I'm not saying your DS should go into finance but definitely shop around before committing to a vastly expensive qualification, and do a "value for money" exercise - what % of graduates have an income over £40k within 2 years of graduating? Over £100k within 15 years? And so on. Money isn't everything but if you have many years of debt to repay, you need at least some idea what you are getting yourself into.

As mentioned upthread, I’m a QS, DP is an architect.
I’m better paid, qualified quicker, quicker progression. I was better paid as a green ground the gills QS on my first job that he was as a fully qualified architect. And once you’ve passed your APC QSs are really very well paid.
If you do client side it really isn’t counting bricks or whatever people claim it is. It really interesting. Happy to answer any questions about the role

I'm jealous @lastqueenofscotland

@lastqueenofscotland how long did you train for and would a, say, 40 something be too old to retrain as a QS?

Asking for a friend 😂

@denverRegina
I did a 1 year masters then jump straight in in a junior position rather than a grad scheme.
APC takes 2-3 years.
Contractors/Subby side is better paid than client side but I went for client side as I didn’t want to work on site and I personally find the type of work on client side more interesting

DH is an achitect. Long study, insecure employment and very sensitve to economic factors still at least we have a beautiful house. Oh yes on marrying an achitect champange tastes beer pockets.

I would really discourage a child of mine from becoming an architect. Had a friend who after all the years of training would have earned more per hour stacking shelves... (salary looked almost alright on paper, but the hours...)

My friend is a QS and her job satisfaction, pay and hours are very impressive. Lots of kids at the school I teach at are looking at these more vocational courses such as QS, radiology etc

My husband is in this industry. He would recommend taking the engineering route not architecture. SIL is an architect and she's clueless about what is actually possible or practical. Always calling him and he's a carpenter joiner (top of his game though). Architecture is too pie in the sky, too much about what looks edgy and cool, and pushing the envelope for the sake of it. Architects actually don't command a lot of respect in the buildings industry from the other professions. I also have a dear friend who completed a Master's degree in architecture and then went on to do art and furniture design because "that's all my skills are good for" (his words).
Engineers, on the other hand, architectural engineers, are the complete opposite. They actually know what they're doing. They command respect accordingly.

Engineering is a good shout as an alternative. Also, Landscape Architecture - still design (an no, Landscape Architects are NOT gardeners or landscapers!) And option of working in multi disciplinary engineering/ environmental consultancies on large infrastructure projects or working for a landscape practice (although former in general would be better paid). Need undergrad, year put (so earning), 1 Yr PGDip/ Masters and then working for a few years before working towards Chartership (if you choose). Very interesting send fulfilling career and lots of avenues off pure design work too.

I've just left one of the bigger architect practices, not as an architect. I was shocked at the levels of pay - after 6+++ years of study the starting salary for a qualified architect in central London with a great practice is £35k. This hasn't changed in years, and so effectively salaries for architects don't keep up with inflation. And the people we employed were top of their game, 1st from top uni, etc. Then to work on large, impressive projects, but only to do a little piece. Unless you have family money behind you, or you have the aptitude to go it alone, it's not a career I would ever recommend. I truly despair of RIBA who have sat back and allowed the profession to become one that only white and privileged kids can afford to aspire to.

The industry I work in means I deal with a lot of architects - many of them are quite disillusioned.

I also work with QS's who seem to be happier in general. lastqueenofscotland I'm one of those arsehole contractors

One of DS's friends was lucky enough to get onto a degree apprenticeship with one of the major construction companies, they are paying for him to study for his degree in Quantity Surveying, he is benefiting from on the job training, a salary and his university education paid for. He also won't have to compete for a graduate position. He is one of the lucky ones in a win/win situation.

Well I've just paid £650 to have some drawings done for a garage conversion. So it might be 6yrs but there's gd money in it. Especially if you go self employed.

It's probably a lot more boring than ur dd realises though. Measuring stuff and playing a computer all day.