International Baccalaureate

[littlebillie]

Can anyone tell me about the international Baccalaureate as my DD is unsure what she should take next it seems a good choice. Does it have a value equivalent to a levels

Yes. Of course. Look at any degree course at a good university and you will see the IB points required alongside the A level grades required. I do think that if you don’t know anything about it, it might not be the best choice. It also isn’t the best prep for some courses. Doing more subjects isn’t always best.

Many DC find it difficult to narrow down subjects. It’s best to look very closely at her strengths, the syllabus and the teaching strengths in the school. IB is expensive to teach and DC can get persuaded to do it. Will she need Maths, a language and the other IB components for her university degree choice? What about in depth sciences? These can be better at A level. Now A levels are stronger, the IB seems less challenging.

I would do far more investigation re strengths and possible weaknesses of your DDs subjects and her choices.

Much better IMO.

Harder than A levels, for sure (I teach it)

Most people no longer think that. It’s also broad and sometimes isn’t best prep for degree courses. When did you last teach A level?

I think the IB is a challenging programme - six subjects, the service requirements, the extended essay and theory of knowledge - success requires good time management skills. There are some limitations eg if you wanted to take two foreign languages or three sciences, but this will depend on IB rules and the school. At my ds's school, for example, it was only possible to take two languages - one A and one B or two A which would result in a bilingual diploma.
My ds is a good all rounder took HL maths, chemistry and biology, SL German, English and Geography and got 43 points. He chose a degree in a subject he had not studied before - some students had prior knowledge from business and economics A levels or IB courses and they had a small advantage in year one, but this had levelled out by year two. He felt he had an advantage with IB HL maths which is considered harder than A level maths and he certainly found the maths courses easier than some in his cohort who only had A level maths and not further maths too. However, I know the IB has reviewed all the maths courses and levels so this may no longer be the case.
happy to answer any questions you may have

I found that it helped me prepare for university with their Extended essays and the in-depth coursework ECT that needed doing, but it was hell for me. Parents wouldn't let me switch, so I was pushed into doing it. The only way I felt I could rebel was by skipping classes. What also didn't help was being surrounded by people who were so much more intelligent than me (or at least I thought they were.) What the truth was is that I found it hard to keep up in the lessons, I didn't ever understand Theory of Knowledge, and I felt so very very excluded by everyone except a few people. Most of them came from private schools, some from abroad and rich families, and others were just absolutely intelligent. (One girl got 44IBP, many others got 40+ with the average being 36IBP. In comparison, I got 26.)
But then friends who did the IB thrived and did really well.

IB parent here

It's excellent preparation for uni in essay subjects as they so much experience in researching, literature reviews, referencing, etc. DC1 has found it hard to work with first year classmates who had no idea where to begin literature searches in their first group project.

There is less subject depth in some subjects. Higher Chemistry is often cited as missing areas covered by A level. Yet Higher Maths is more demanding than A level maths, having elements of Further Maths too.

The workload is insane. They get very good at managing time & deadlines. "Does it count for CAS?" will become a catchphrase!

It's very much a matter of what will suit your DC. Mine loved it. Their subject combo was unique in the country last year (yes, really!) and it perfectly suited what they wanted to study at uni... but it is relentless.

I did the IB many moons ago. It was great preparation for university.

It was undoubtedly harder work than A-levels, and you do need to be a good all-rounder, but if you are willing to put the work in, I'd definitely go for it.

“Many moons ago” really isn’t comparing IB with the current syllabus for A levels. So that’s not an informed comparison and should be discounted.

You also must consider what hobbies DC enjoy doing as well as academic work. Universities, including Oxbridge, require 3 A levels. What is the point of pushing on with 6 subjects and not actually doing the best prep for university in any of them? FM Maths is an A level for talented mathematicians so this is a more challenging qualification than IB. It is often taken as a 4th A level.

Young people’s mental health is often better served by doing subjects they can get very interested in, plus an EPQ can be taken if need be. 3 A levels suits the vast majority. An EPQ also helps DC delve deeper into a university related topic. Why push for so many subjects when it isn’t needed and may preclude sport, music, drama and other essential fun elements of school being taken up because of time constraints and the IB workload?

Schools are dropping IB because it isn’t better than the new A levels but is more expensive to teach. Always look at what DC wants to study at university. A levels might well be better prep now. Outdated info about A levels or marketing from schools who need to justify their decision and costs should challenged for 2020 decisions. Many parents are doing this.

As it happens, Bubbles, I have had much more recent experience with the IB and A-levels in a professional capacity, and I still think it's a better option overall for those who are capable of it.

Personally, I'm very grateful for the breadth of the education that I had, and don't feel that I lost out on any depth in the subject that I eventually went on to study at university (Cambridge fwiw). And there is no reason why the IB should push out creative or sporting pursuits - on the contrary, the CAS element of the IB positively encourages these.

Of course, it isn't a good option for everyone, and I appreciate that it's expensive for schools to teach. Many students will lack the time management skills needed to succeed. Others will have a clear preference and/or aptitude for some subjects above others. However, I still think it's a fantastic option for really good all-rounders who are willing to put the work in. Sadly, my dd won't have the IB as an option as there aren't any local schools which offer it, but she'd jump at the chance if she could.

IB sorts the sheep from the goats certainly. You need to be a good all-rounder for IB, whereas you can specialise at A level. It would not have suited me at all, but I got all As at A level in a narrow range of subjects. I think those who get a good IB result are truly bright, some of those who do well at A level perhaps less so (definitely in my case!)

If I were recruiting I would be extra interested in someone with the IB.

Why push for so many subjects when it isn’t needed and may preclude sport, music, drama and other essential fun elements of school being taken up because of time constraints and the IB workload?

Actually the reverse is true. Due to the CAS requirements IB students are encouraged to continue with music, drama and sport. My ds, for example, played football and touch rugby for the school, coached junior football, was involved in website design for a charity..etc members of this cohort were in drama productions, wrote music for school productions, volunteered with charities and these were students who were not taking drama and music as IB subjects.

I'm living in Asia and a huge number of schools that used to offer A-Levels have moved to IB. The reality of the changing world and economy is that having a wider but shallower range of skills makes one more adaptable than having a narrow and deep focus, especially at age 16.

However, if the student is based in the UK and intends to join a British university, A-Levels are probably a better choice because for many people it's easier to get AAA in three subjects you love than to get a high score on IBDP across six.

DS is in his first year at university having finished his IB in May 2019. He has found that he is well prepared for university and that the IB has stood him in good stead.
Obviously he can't say if that would still have been the case if he had taken A levels.
His state school only offer IB at 6th form and he knew he wanted to stay there to do the IB from early in his secondary school career.
His university offers varied from unconditional to 38 points / the same university had a standard A level offer of A*, A, A (and his now classmates were offered that as an A level offer)

Personally, I saw the IB as a lot of work, but the results that he and his friends got seemed less volatile than some of the A level results that I heard about. I often hear of students being predicted 'x' at A level and then getting 'y' whereas the IB predictions from his school were very accurate.

I hope that my DD will want to go the her brother's school for 6th form (the school is co-ed at 6th form, but not from years 7 - 11)

I've just been recommended this book which seems relevant in considering A-Levels vs IB

www.goodreads.com/book/show/41795733-range

"Plenty of experts argue that anyone who wants to develop a skill, play an instrument, or lead their field should start early, focus intensely, and rack up as many hours of deliberate practice as possible. If you dabble or delay, you'll never catch up to the people who got a head start. But a closer look at research on the world's top performers, from professional athletes to Nobel laureates, shows that early specialization is the exception, not the rule.

David Epstein examined the world's most successful athletes, artists, musicians, inventors, forecasters and scientists. He discovered that in most fieldsespecially those that are complex and unpredictablegeneralists, not specialists, are primed to excel. Generalists often find their path late, and they juggle many interests rather than focusing on one. They're also more creative, more agile, and able to make connections their more specialized peers can't see."

IB is more general and doesn’t cover as much as an A level. I think that is a good option if the kid is totally clueless about what to study as a degree, but if they already know, it is much better to choose the right levels instead, better to get 3 As in three A levels than an array of Bs in many subjects, especially if most of them are irrelevant to what they want to do in uni.

@missyoumuch - an interesting quote. Enjoyed reading it.