A level choices: too soft?

[ALevelDilemna]

Have posted in Higher ed too but hoping to maximise footfall!

My dd is in Y11 and is making her choices for sixth form. We seem to be going round in circles discussing the best options for her but she has finally plumped for:

English Lit
Textiles
RE / Philosophy and Ethics
French (reserve choice)

Is this combination OK? She is bright and aiming for unis such as Bristol / Manchester / Bath / Leeds etc...

@marjoretta. I’d disagree that RS is a mid range subject. I teach, English, at a very academic school and lots of our super bright ones do RS and it’s always had a religious component. It’s also a ‘stronger’ subject than English Language. I’m not sure why she’s doing 4 though. Universities only want three and it’s a lot of work. Textiles will be fine if it is her fourth but she might struggle to get offers if it’s one of three.

I think EPQs are great - I’d be wary of doing textiles if it’s one of her three though. It might put some Russell Group Unis off and English is a competitive course. Perhaps she could do an artefact EPQ where she creates textiles instead of the A level. A lot of my tutees went for this option and created a range of amazing things from a musical to a new font.

It might put some Russell Group Unis off and English is a competitive course

If this is true then why don't RG unis make this clear in their entry requirements?

Because it's not true !!!!! I know many many many students who have textiles as their 3rd who have gone on to v good Unis, including Oxbridge. Far too much snobbery around subjects - I'm a science teacher so no axe to grind. As long as have the required A levels for a course the other ones really don't matter. Just do the ones you are going to get the best marks in - and enjoy. Lots of Unis give lower offers with an EPQ, Sheffield for medicine being just one. Tell her to do the ones she wants.

I know its not true!

🤓well at least 2 of us do 😂😂

@musmerian

I'm an RS teacher.

The rating of RS being a 'mid range' subject is not necessarily my opinion, but the 2008 research by Durham uni. Trinity College Cambridge used to rank it as A2 - one of the more academic arts A levels. But as I said before it is outdated now.

I also used to teach A level philosophy, and I can say RS is significantly easier than A level philosophy. But then our students who did Maths, philosophy and Physics used to get lower predicted grades for Maths and Physics than they did for philosophy. So ALPs at least recognises philosophy to be super hard.

And, no before the reforms teaching religion was not a compulsory component of the A level. Teaching a religion was always an option, as was a study of a gospel, if you did Edexcel. But 90% of students did their two options in philosophy and ethics. However, when Gove brought in his reforms, he made a third element to the course compulsory... so all students now have to do philosophy, ethics and either a religion or a religious text. I know this as I was at the teacher consultation at the DFE when they introduced the new A level. The original plan was for the course to be half philosophy and ethics and half religion. We successfully persuaded the government to make it a third each.

Unfortunately, the content of the philosophy and ethics have not drastically reduced, but the religion has been added. I do admit that the theology varies board to board, but it does take a very different skill and many students find that hard. I think the A level has got harder, but I think that's true for lots of A levels.

But yes, I also agree EPQ is a great option. I was a moderator on that for years, and have seen some excellent textile based projects. One of my students a few years ago researched and made an Elizabethan style bodice. It was amazing! I do think that would be an excellent compromise, although for some strange reason some schools are really nervous of doing EPQ artefacts.

My dd has just started at Leeds doing English. She got in on the back of A levels in English Lit, RS and Drama and a last minute application on clearing day (had always understood this was possible but never quite believed it till it happened!) We had a similar scenario in that my dd had started out studying History but ditched it early on in favour of RS (having also tried Psychology too!). I would absolutely support the view that RS is a tough subject (completely impenetrable to me!) so if unis aren't valuing it, they absolutely should - the content is huge and it requires analytical skills at least as strong as those needed for English (and is also complementary to English and other subjects in that regard). I wouldn't worry about the third subject, as long as she gets the grades - which she will if she's passionate about Textiles and it will also leave the option open of pursuing it. My dd was interested in similar unis to yours and after a turbulent sixth form, somehow managed to come through with very good grades. I think this is what counts on clearing day, though the English one is obviously essential.

My DD has a friend studying medicine who has textiles A level with chemistry and biology. She got 4 offers. Must help with stitching

There was a report fairly recently re medical schools (found the reference -
Imperial, to be precise) finding an increase in students lacking the required manual dexterity these days.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/education-46019429

On the question of having one 'wrong' A level in addition to holding good grades in all subjects actually required leading to one's application being rejected, I have asked this, but no-one has actually come back with a reference to a university which states that this would be its policy.

There was a report fairly recently re medical schools (found the reference -
Imperial, to be precise) finding an increase in students lacking the required manual dexterity these days

I've often wondered about the emphasis on A level grades for medicine over manual dexterity. Even more so for dentistry! I could not have been a doctor or dentist because I really don't have manual dexterity (as well as being rubbish at science, so I did humanities A levels).

My DD is doing A level Philosophy and Ethics as well as History. They seem to have a similar work load. I would say the concepts in Philosophy take longer to grasp, real mind benders some of them. I think it is very rigorous and teaches all sorts of valuable generic skills. Not a soft option...

This is quite an interesting study on A level choices:
www.cambridgeassessment.org.uk/Images/561968-the-impact-of-a-level-subject-choice-and-students-background-characteristics-on-higher-education-participation.pdf
Recently published too
Without knowing your DD, I don't think she could manage 4 A levels if doing textiles. Coursework is really demanding. I'd probably agree with others that if she does 2 academic subjects, she'd be fine with textiles as the 3rd. French is now very hard with the new curriculum, some are saying only those with native speaker background can get A*, so possibly not right unless you're really passionate.

You can not compare Drama and Textiles when applying for a competitive English degree course. Drama is highly relevant to English Lit. Textiles isn’t. Of course the universities like Drama and English as a combination. It’s all about maximising chances of getting on the degree course she wants and if it’s very competitive, you need A levels that are either academic or ones that compliment English.

Oxford suggest History and a Language are the most useful 2nd and 3rd subjects for their English degree. That advice would be good for many other universities one would think.

You've only mentioned one subject she is passionate about: textiles. She should do that for sure. A levels aren't just a means to an end, but should be valued in and of themselves.

All the DC who think this and do random subjects get rejected from the best universities precisely because of this. Often the poorly advised deprived DCs. It always pays to look at the course you might want and work backwards. Very bright DC who are good at lots of things often find it hard to drop subjects. They enjoy most of them. However, it’s always best to look at what degree you want and where from and decide how competitive the course is. Will they expect an academic essay subject as the third one or not? Ditto with sciences. Do your choices put you in a strong position or not?

My DD2 did both photography and art. Both were relevant to her degree. But it wasn’t English or History or French.

www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses-listing/english-language-and-literature

●Helpful:
A language or History can be helpful to students in completing this course, although they are not required for admission.