Can anyone explain the complete basics of applying for medicine/vet med at Uni

[YvonneMyBelle]

Dd has just done her GCSEs. Predicted grades 7-9 in all subjects. She on and off mentions thinking about medicine/vet med (in a typically vague, it will all sort itself out teenage way) - but needs to pin down her subjects for 6th form soon.

How much do Med schools look at GCSE grades?
What subjects should she do for A-level?
Does she need maths A-level?
Is IB or are A-levels preferable to Universities?
Should she be doing relevant work experience already?
What sort of work experience is useful/viewed well.

Thanks!

Morning bump.

I'm sure she won't need maths A level. I would imagine three sciences would be better - but I'm just bumping for you - not speaking from a position of knowledge.

Https:www.medschools.ac.uk/studying-medicine/applications/entry-requirements?type=standard-entry-medicine

This website is helpful

Thanks user. She wants to do Biology and Chemistry - not so keen on Physics!

Luzina, that is a great website, thanks!

Look at entry requirements carefully. For medicine she will addition need UCAT - a sort of situationally judgement and IQ test.

For vet medicine, she will need a substantial amount of work experience to apply so she’d need to start getting it now.

Vet medicine is harder to get into as there are really very few places per year. Medicine on the other hand is competitive but has around 7000 places per year.

For both courses, she’d be signing up for at least 5 years of study. So she really needs to be sure she wants to do it and not just be ‘vague’. She also has to be confident she wants to be up close to poorly humans/animals - the book learning is secondary after the first couple of years when gaining the practical aspects of medicine takes up most of the contact hours.

YY Gwynnefluff - agree about the vagueness. Lots of girls at her school knew they wanted to be medics in Year 7! I think she has the temperament for it but not sure about the stomach If she does decide to do it she will throw herself in wholeheartedly but it is the deciding part that needs to actually happen .

I will google but is there a ‘best’ place to find out about UCAT? When do applicants have to take that?

How much do Med schools look at GCSE grades?

All unis have their own entry requirements - choose a couple to start with and check on their website to see what they require. You'll soon realise you need a spreadsheet to keep track! You'll also discover that entry requirements are the bare minimum; you'll need to look carefully at shortlisting criteria for interviews to see how your DD scores. Some unis base their interview shortlist purely on UCAT ranking, others use a combi of GCSE points, predicted grades, BMAT/UCAT score.

What subjects should she do for A-level?

Check websites to make sure. Biology and Chemistry usually means she's safe for all unis.

Does she need maths A-level?

No. That said, Oxbridge stats show applicants with these 3 subjects stand a better chance. Maths will also help with UCAT and BMAT tests.

Is IB or are A-levels preferable to Universities?

No difference.

Should she be doing relevant work experience already?

She should start now. DS1 volunteered as a ward assistant for 4 months when he was 16. This led to a week's work experience - all departments including surgical observations. Check if hospitals nearby if they run student programmes. He now volunteers weekly at Children's Emergency and has direct patient contact.

What sort of work experience is useful/viewed well.

Any caring commitment is good. I am assuming that your DD is 16 already - she should start volunteering at care homes etc or community groups which have a caring element. DS1 volunteered with Riding for the Disabled (when he was 15) and St John's Ambulance (started age 12). He also used the time after GCSE exams to find a job (pharmacy) and has kept the PT job going (still there now). It is good to show long-term commitment.

Best place to find out about the UCAT is its own website: www.ucat.ac.uk/

She will need to sit this in the year she applies. Only 1 sitting allowed per test cycle.

In the nicest way possible, if she’s going into sixth form in September she will have roughly a year to sort out her application, so if she is serious about medicine/vet medicine then she needs to start researching it herself. If she isn’t willing to put the working into looking into it, I would be a bit worried about her motivation.

Entry requirements for medicine vary between universities, so there is no one combination of A Levels that will tick all the boxes, but generally biology and chemistry are necessary. She might also need to do an admissions test, eg UCAT or BMAT, but again this varies. I would encourage her to look at the requirements for different universities that she might consider applying to.

Work experience is definitely a must, not just for strengthening her application, but for getting a realistic view of what the job is like. Ideally she should try and get some shadowing experience, and to get a realistic view of the job I would aim to shadow a junior doctor, rather than a consultant.

Medicine is bloody tough, the degree is a long slog but specialty training is (often) longer and tougher, and morale in the NHS is low. Doctors tend to have to bear the brunt of rota gaps, and are left holding the buck when things go wrong. I would encourage her to read about the Hadiza Bowa-Garba case. There was also a thread about working in medicine on here yesterday, and there was a programme on radio 4 recently about a junior doctor who is leaving her job because of the working conditions. I’ll link both of those below.

There are lots of amazing things about medicine, and it’s a complete privilege to be a doctor, but she needs to go into it with her eyes open.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0005t3h
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3649460-To-think-medicine-isnt-a-great-career-choice?pg=1&order=

And Vet medicine - does she want to work with Pets or Large Farm animals? If the former - how does she feel about having to put pets to sleep? For the later how does she feel about putting her arm up a Cows backside?
How much experience does she have with animals? Has she got pets? Has she worked at a Farm or Stables?

(Vets are also not that well paid, but are often extremely motivated.)

Maybe you need to get her some careers advice so she can find out about alternative careers.

My DS did a really good weeks work experience at the local hospital, watched an operation in the operating theatre and other real experiences. He also had lots of chats with junior doctors. He decided not to follow the medicine route from this. Definitely worth checking out if your local hospitals have the same scheme, this was run in first year of sixth form.

Unis will be having open days in September and October. Go to one or two that do medicine/vet courses (closest are fine at this stage), and attend the subject talks to get an overview - most also have subject stands where you can talk to current students and maybe lecturers and pick up leaflets/course outline books. At this stage, you're not actually looking at which uni to apply for - you're just doing some research, hence why local Unis are fine. You'd be doing the open days early, but that's no problem. We went with our son a year early and it really helped start the process - especially as we, as parents, didn't go to uni and he had no siblings nor close relatives who've been either, so it was from a standing start. At least you'll get their take on what A levels they require (subjects and grades) and hopefully get it from the horses' mouth as to work experience etc. (Although all Unis are good these days as to very comprehensive websites showing requirements, processes, etc).

As for GCSE grades, she needs the best she can get. It doesn't matter so much about what the Uni says are it's minimum requirements - it's all a competition as there are more applicants than places. A stellar set of GCSE's plus high predicted A level grades will push her up the list compared with someone with an "OK" set of GCSEs and the same predicted grades. Things like relevant work experience and good personal statement/references do the same - it's all about climbing up the applicant list.

If their "min req" is 3 A's at A level, but they get hundreds of applicants with forecast As, then they'll be offering places to the A applicants and those with just A predictions will only get a sniff if they stand out for other reasons, i.e. top GCSE grades, top personal statement, lots of relevant work experience, etc. (Although different Unis place more/less importance on each aspect - eg. some publicly say they don't take personal statements into account, some don't do interviews, others do group interviews, some have a series of 1-2-1 interviews.) So, whilst GCSEs may or may not be too relevant, a string of 9's would help per stand out in the crowd.

Thanks all. Really useful advice. I think I will show dd this thread and then let her get on with it, whatever she decides.

For vet med she's going to need to get her skates on for work experience, but still time. Liverpool want 5 weeks, 3 husbandry (2 out of the main 3 areas of equine, farm, small animal) and 2 vet practice. Most need at least 2/3 weeks but at interview you need to show more realistically.

Medicine requires less but needs some to show commitment. And the dreaded UCAT/BMAT is a factor. And volunteering.
They are very different careers so would need to maybe try out both and see what she likes best. Can you tell I have one of both 😂

And just a quick one of admissions for medicine. For some Unis having higher predictions and a good PS will make no difference at all ! Lots no longer read the PS as they know some schools 'help' more than others (some still do though).
Take Sheffield. If you have 7 As and 3 A prediction then you pass the first stage. Could have 240 A*s and it would make no difference. They just then rank everyone who passes the threshold by UCAT to chose who to interview. Many others do the same or a variety of this.

Every Uni decides who to interview differently so you need to find where you fit. Around other things like campus/non campus, dissection/prosecution, intercalated or not etc. Oh and it changes every year so take all advice with a pinch of salt.
Most want Chemistry but more wanting biology than a few years ago. Don't need maths - they are just as happy with history, drama or PE (all combinations of my DDs medic friends).

If you are showing your DD this, she needs to know that Medicine is a long slog, even before she starts the course. It requires utter commitment and determination. Competition is stiff - approx 10 applicants per place - and she will be up against others who have put in 100%.

242mummy, dd may be undecided but even I think that is a little patronising! She’s naive but not stupid, we have medic friends and family. She doesn’t think it’s something she’ll just waltz into because she’s clever . She’s just turned 16yrs and is sensibly trying to think ahead when settling on her A-levels. Not everyone wants to be a medic from aged 4yrs.
Anyway, there’s lot of info on here for her to get her teeth into. Thanks everyone.

Main thing now is to choose appropriate A-levels. The safest combo is Chemistry, Biology + one other rigorous one. Then work her socks off to get excellent predicted grades.

It is very useful if they can get some appropriate work experience before end of yr12 just to get some of that out of the way. Examples typical for applicants to medschool where I work would be 1-3 days shadowing someone clinical, plus 4 full days or 12 sessions in another suitable environment. Interacting with vulnerable people (disabled children, carer for family member(s), regular care home visits) is good. A shadowing placement in clinical envt would be ideal, but these can be hard to get, just keep looking & asking around. 6th form may have contacts to help.

Ideally keep a diary during the work experience to help her reflect upon it later, it's a common interview topic.

Reading medical-theme non-fiction in her summer hols is good. I recommend This is going to hurt (very funny), When Breath Becomes Air (sad & poignant) and Do No Harm (all 3).

I had a contact to help DD get 2 WE days shadowing GP & nurses at end of yr11. I sent DD to a Royal Society "So you want to study medicine?" event in London in yr12 (I think that's February time roughly); was free & DD said it was good overview.

Otherwise, DD didn't do any organising until June of yr12. Other than offering ONE talk, I can't say her 6th form did much either. By end of July yr12 she attended UCAS fair, went to 4 open days, signed up for UCAT & BMAT, organised a care home volunteer role. It will come together if is what they want.

Thanks MedSchoolRat - really useful stuff!

YvonneMyBelle - ah! Didn't mean to be patronising at all. You said in your post that your DD was "vague" and approaching Medicine in a "it will all sort itself out teenage way". Thought she might like a wake-up call.

I remember you from the GCSE threads, 242Mummy, and you have always been extremely helpful and supportive.

I think your advice this time is spot on! Year 12 goes so quickly and before you know it, your DC is writing their personal statement.

I remember from other threads that 242Mummy has current knowledge of the application process and has always been helpful in her posts and comments.

Aren't the BMAT and the other admissions tests coming up for those who have just finished year 12? So, if the OP's DD seriously wanted to apply for medicine, she would be doing the entrance exams this time next year and submitting an UCAS application at the start of October 2020 that would need to be packed with supra-curricular things she'd done to support the application, including work experience.

242Mummy is right and deserves an apology!

Apologies Mummy242, I did think your post was a little patronising but I see from others it was well meant. I don’t think anyone in their right mind (including Dd) would think medicine was anything other than a huge slog. My mum-hackles were up a bit on dd’s behalf .

She has been choosing her A-levels based on leaving options open for medicine (so her definites are Chemistry and Biology) but I’m sure she doesn’t realise what else is required yet. Having read the AIBU thread about medicine being an awful career choice I think she has some hard decisions to make (sorry dd when you read this!) - and I actually don’t think any of our medic friends and family would recommend it either but if she still wants to do it she will get our 100% support.
My friend’s daughter was keen on being a medic until she did some work experience in a practice and went off the idea completely!

DD is still away at the moment (ironically on work experience which whilst useful won’t be helpful for any med applications!) when she returns I will show her this thread so we can talk it through properly.