Is doing a psychology degree / being a clinical psychologist different from being a counsellor?

[Janus]

Dad is thinking of doing a psychology degree to then continue to be a clinical psychologist as she wants to be a counsellor (in her words). However, looking st a similar thread everyone on that said psychology is totally different from counselling. So has she got this wrong or can someone explain how a psychology degree can be used please??
Thank you.

Should say dd not dad!!

Basically yes, they're different. Psychology involves studying a lot more research based stuff, counselling is practical vocational skills and theory. That said, there are some Counselling Psychologists who trained in psychology but have added a counselling training on to that. It sort of depends whether she's interested in psychology research, whether she's academic, whether she wants to work in the NHS, and whether she's up for a very competitive environment. If she is then Psychologist may be for her.

If she's interested in people in pain, relationships, human connection skills and trauma, then counselling or psychotherapy would be better (psychotherapist tend to be more highly qualified counsellors, but they basically entail the same job).

Do tell her though that there's a serious dearth of counselling and psychotherapy jobs at the moment (the government prefer to hire unqualified 'wellbeing practitioners' than counsellors because they're cheaper) so she'd most likely end up self employed, which offers great flexibility and freedom but obviously isn't for everyone.

Becoming a clinical, counselling or research based psychologist is likely to take 7 or more years. Becoming a psychotherapist takes around 6 years (or I did, anyway!) and counselling trainings vary from rubbish 'we can teach you in a month!' offerings to proper 3-4 year trainings.

Hope that helps :)

Thank you so much, it does help.
She’s just half way through the first year of a radiography degree and has worked out that the very little patient contact is not what she wants. I’m worried as this degree almost guarantees her a job and wasn’t too sure what psychology could lead to but sounds like there’s loads it could lead to. Thanks so much for explaining.

I think psychology is more about behaviours, causes, and possible fixes. There are educational, occupational, clinical, forensic, therapeutic, research....... cbt or behaviour modification might be offered by a psychologist in a clinic, after testing or assessment.
Counselling is more about how you feel, maybe focussed eg bereavement, but also cbt is now being offered as counselling. Psychotherapy delves into history and relationships, much more intense. A psychiatrist is a doctor who deals with mental health, often prescribe drugs.

Gosh I'm a therapist and often wish i was a radiographer!

Her options are
Clinical psychology (insanely competitive)
Counselling
Psychogical wellbeing practitioner (lack of prospects, unfulfilling for many)
Occupational therapist (going into mental health)
Mental health nursing

Counsellors (with certain qualifications), MH nurses and OTs can get CBT qualifications and accreditation.

I'd say get some volunteer experience eg work for Samaritans or Rape Crisis and see how you find it, while working and getting professional radiography experience. My hairdresser wanted to retrain and then through volunteering realised it wasn't for her.

Thank you, she ideally wants to be a psychotherapist which (I think!) means psychology degree and then a masters in psychotherapy.
I think I’m so worried that she wants more patient contact than radiography but worried this is the other extreme!
I don’t think at her age I can really interfere and she has to find her own way but that doesn’t stop me worrying!

@EvaHarknessRose can I ask why you would prefer to be a radiographer? Is it because it’s less stress? Dd is already doing placements about 2 hours travel each way and is exhausted, don’t think she can do voluntary work unless she stops this course but that’s a catch 22 as then if she doesn’t like it she’s stopped the course.
My main worry I suppose is that she’ll regret stopping this one but she seems convinced psychology is for her but how will she know until she starts (other than doing it at a level and getting a good grade). My poor little brain!

The work is rewarding but challenging if you are well supported and not too pressured, I suppose, but that does not exist in current services sadly. No one really cares if you do excellent therapy or not, just that you are there and they don't let up until you break. Then they will probably replace you with a band 4. And therapy in the context of complex mental illness/increasing pressure on families is hard to achieve good outcomes in short term treatment, which is generally what we can offer.

I often have grass is greener moments, but I know there are pressures in other HCP careers too. I wish your dd well, having changed career myself after my first degree. You have to follow your gut.

My dd was also interested in doing a psychology degree so I have found this thread helpful.

Clinical psychology is quite different to counselling. It's NHS work essentially which is more focused on diagnosis and setting a treatment plan, or doing research depending on the post, than doing talking therapy. Job prospects post graduation with your doctorate are very good, but getting onto the doctorate in the first place is extremely difficult and requires strong grades in a psychology degree or equivalent conversion course plus relevant clinical placements which are usually unpaid, and even then most people have to apply several years in a row to get in.

Counselling psychology and private counselling don't have the same barriers to entry and it can be very fulfilling work, but often poorly paid and self employment can be required.

I would check out other AHP careers which would offer more patient contact such as speech therapy, dietetics or Physio therapy, OT which offer similar career profiles to Radiotherapy. I agree clinical psychology is incredibly competitive and if the main issue for your dd is lack of patient contact then the other disciplines would give much more but much easier to enter and find a job at the end

Are there any areas of radiography that have more patient contact? Maybe oncology for example?

What attracted her to radiography in the first place? Clinical psychology is a really different career and requires years of study. Counselling will probably be a less secure profession. They are a huge change from radiography- apart from the lack of patient contact, how does she find the radiography course?

Radiography is direct patient contact unless you specialise in reporting, education or management so I'm wondering what she means by this. Does she mean that she wants to see the same patient repeatedly?

I'm assuming that she's training to be a diagnostic radiographer. If so, what about moving to therapeutic radiography as she would then be seeing the same patients, and it has a similar scientific academic side so she won't have wasted the past 6months of her training. Might be worth speaking to her lecturers

Thank you everyone. She’s done 2 placements so covered much of what she would do and feels that most of it so far has been lining someone up on the X-ray machine, going outside to push a button and then helping them get dressed/quick chat and off they go, never seen again and about 10 minutes or so of patient contact and then repeat! I can see what she means a bit but I’m also not sure what else she thought it would be?? She did 2 weeks work experience and loved it then. She doesn’t want to work on the oncology side but I agree this would have more patient contact and repeated contact. I think it’s the whole pushing a button and go (very simplified, I don’t mean to be rude) that she’s not liking.
I think ideally she’d like to become a psychotherapist and then be self employed and see people on a weekly basis and help them and hopefully see them improve. Is this realistic then??
She’s a hard worker, attends all lectures and will put in the effort but I’m still so worried about the change of direction.

Training, qualifying and building up a practice as a psychotherapist is a long and expensive business, Janus. There is a reason why most people doing it are middle class women with stably employed partners. And without wishing to be unkind, most people seeking psychotherapy would want someone with life experience rather than someone fresh out of education. It's not really a graduate career as such. There are cheaper lower skilled jobs in the NHS but they are doing structured therapies like CBT over short periods of time rather than having more open ended therapeutic relationships, it would be rather tickboxy and also fairly poorly paid.

If she wants to go into a field of psychology, in which there are some good careers, the first step would really be a psychology conversion course which is the equivalent of a psychology undergraduate degree for people who already have a degree in another field. This would take several years part time or a minimum of about 18 months full time. Then there are various post-grad training paths which all involve further qualifications and have varying degrees of ease of getting into and job prospects.

Mental health nursing is, I think, a secure field with good prospects but very stressful and not great working conditions.

Thank you Countess, she is actually starting a psychology degree in September as her uni has agreed she can ‘start again’ as she’s about 6 months into first year. Good to hear there are various openings, I guess she’ll work it out in time.
I totally see what you mean about needing more life experience, I agree.
I honestly wish she enjoyed her current course more but if she doesn’t she just doesn’t.

Thanks, Janus for posting the thread - and to everyone that posted - I have found the thread very informative.

My dd is doing a psychology degree and tells me that it is one of the most employable degrees, there are fast track entries into many careers such as hr, the police, civil service etc.

It’s s degree where grads can apply for grad employment with employers in whatever field suits them. Fast track isn’t really correct. No one fast tracks a psychology grad over, say, a History grad. They are all grad schemes with open recruitment and Psychology doesn’t give you any advantage over anyone else. All jobs have competition from grads with a wide range of degrees. Fast track civil service is certainly not guaranteed for Psychology grads, for example.