Which science goes best with Biology

[Theyearofthecats]

Dd wants to do Physics and Biology A level and English lit.
She has been advised to take Maths with Physics,but can only do 3 A levels.
She is predicted level 8 GCSE maths.Will Physics A level be too difficult without Maths A level?
Would Chemistry be better?
Or should she do what she is most interested in?(Physics )

In fact how many scientists have taken English A level

Me. It was about ten times more useful than biology. I learned a lot of very good things doing the A level. Biology we covered again in two weeks of the degree because it’s piss easy. I use things I learned in English A level almost daily. I had a fantastic teacher (one of the very few I’d ever had, having been lucky enough to go to what is politely termed a sink school.)

I dont know how much you know about the day to day workings of science as a career but there’s one heck of a lot of writing. Papers. Books. Grants. Talks to give. Complex material to pitch to levels from amoeba-intelligence (the gutter press) all the way through keen laypeople and experts.

Now I work in industry and again, I use things I used in English A level regularly.

I would suggest she does English, maths and then picks either physics or chem. or further maths, if they still do that #ancient

I didn’t mean that English (the ability to write coherently) isn’t needed by scientists, I meant that English Lit A level wasn’t needed.

Not necessarily English lit A level specifically (which is what I have alongside biology and chemistry) but any essay subject is a good thing to have as a scientist. Universities can teach the scientific concepts that students may have missed out on by not taking 3 sciences at A level, but in a science degree they don't always spend long on good writing skills, yet employers want scientists who can write well. For a biology degree, English lit would be more useful at A level than physics.

And all of the things you do require an English A level? Really? DH is an Engineer and writes reports and letters all the time. Not a single engineer he knows or employs has English A level. They have a good level of English without it. Even engineers who are not British seem to be able to write well too! They don’t write books though. They work full on. They don’t write papers much either but they do train other engineers and are doers, not intellectual writers!

Of course you don’t need it.

I’m saying I found it extremely useful.

And judging by the absolutely dire quality of most of the emails, grants, papers, book chapters and talks I was endlessly editing and critiquing for my colleagues and students, it might have been useful for them too.

So no other A levels ensure you can write good English? What about History A level? What you have encountered is people never having had their English corrected by parents or teachers. Low expectations. That’s a completely different thing and being able to write good English has virtually no correlation with English A level.

being able to write good English has virtually no correlation with English A level

A thought experiment...

Take a two random samples of 100 folk, the first comprising only people those have English A level, the second comprising people who have not.

Get them all to write a few hundred words on a topic.

Do you think there would be no correlation between quality of writing and having an English A level?

What you have encountered is people never having had their English corrected by parents or teachers.

I doubt that. I imagine most privately educated children get their English corrected regularly.

I’m a scientist. I use the techniques I learned specifically in my English A level daily. I write a lot. I read a lot of my colleagues written output. Most of it is so bad it needs to be completely restructured.

Ironically the non native English speakers are better (a few minor corrections on spelling and idiom generally.)

I think this is actually indicative of the narrow approach of A levels. You’re restricted to 3 or if you’re at a ‘good’ school maybe 4. That means too many kids doing only science, and dropping a passion for language, or only humanities and leaving themselves lacking in numeracy. It’s narrow specialisation very early.

I’ve always found the interesting career opportunities to be at the intersection of fields. Biologist who can program? Sorted.

To quote a better writer than me, “specialisation is for insects.”

There is very little actual Maths in Physics A level these days (depending on the board). The new syllabi are designed for Physics to be a stand alone A level. However, conceptually, Physics is a Science if change and calculus helps you to understand this (and some teachers will use it anyway, although they should be sympathetic to the non mathematicians). In addition you certainly could not go any further in Physics without Maths.

Chemistry is the natural fit with Biology as it opens up Biochemistry and Medicine as degree subjects.

However Science A levels are demanding and, to do well, you have to really like the subject. Doing subjects you don’t like as they are a ‘good fit’ tends to have a poor outcome.

Dd is in her second year of a biology degree & has a compulsory coding module. She did stats as part of her A level maths and is really pleased she did, some of her fellow students who did not do maths A level are really struggling. She did chemistry AS, geography A, biology A & maths A. She had to write essays in biology and geography. A friend’s daughter who did a geography degree and then masters is being asked what languages she can code in now she’s job hunting.

My DDs friend did Geography and would not go near a job that required coding. They can be avoided!

As DD is a Barrister and does not have English Lit A Level, I really wonder how she can string two sentences together? Her clients, and indeed judges, expect her to produce a coherent position statement in court even though her education was obviously below your standards, Anat.

English Lit A level really does not give a better grounding for the use of English. It obviously requires essays but many other A levels require reading, interpretation and essay writing. English A level does not require a higher level of written English.

Perhaps science degrees should require a higher level of English from their students? Or maybe you just work with the least "educated" scientists in the country Anat? Why are you all writing so much anyway? In addition, language evolves. It is not static. Perhaps a flexible attitude to use of English is a good idea?

I am not saying it’s compulsory

I am not saying everyone without an English lit A level is an illiterate troglodyte

I am saying I found it useful and have continued to find it useful throughout my working career

Or maybe you just work with the least "educated" scientists in the country Anat? Why are you all writing so much anyway?

Huh? Scientists write papers, conference talks, posters, book chapters, books, policy briefs, grant proposals etc. It is a myth that scientists do not have to write -the ability to write well is absolutely essential for scientists.

Why are you all writing so much anyway?

Dissertations
Thesis
Getting work published
Scientific journals
To name a few

Or maybe you just work with the least "educated" scientists in the country Anat? Why are you all writing so much anyway?

Well one is a Nobel laureate so they can’t be that thick and untalented ;)

A huge amount of science as a career is writing. Grants, bloody endless grants. Books, book chapters, editorials, papers, reviews, study reports, talks etc. Also you need to read and comment on things - other people’s papers as part of the peer review process for example.

I’m now in industry - today I’ve written the first draft of a 13 page informed consent form for a clinical study. It needs to carry very specific and quite complex information in a way that is non-jargony and accessible to the study population. Right now I’m working on a slide deck for a big investigator meeting where I can be more technical in getting similar information across.

There’s a lot of writing involved. It’s probably 35% of my job.

(The other 65% is best described as cat herding ...)

Anatidae,

I fear you are wasting your time with well written and argued posts.

Keep it up.

Yep, I'm also a scientist who took English Lit at A level and found it the most useful of qualifications and skills. Understanding concepts is one thing, being able to communicate them to others in depth but at a simple enough level for everyone to understand you, is another. In fact, in my final year of my degree, my tutor just told us to read, read, read and to brush up our writing skills...because that is what makes the difference on exam day.

I would also recommend Biology with Chemistry and English. Its what I did. I'm now a medical writer running my own businesses.
My degree also did cover both biology and chemistry in the first year...this was nowhere near the depth that you go into these subjects at A level. It is a skim over the most pertinent points at best. As someone who works in the medical sphere, psychology is not considered a proper science degree subject so unless she wants to work in that field particularly, I wouldn't go there.

“She would enjoy Law A level.She loves History,Biology,English Lit,Re.”

In that case, she should do history, biology and Eng Lit for A level, and law at university (or she could do history or English then a law conversion).

It she doesn’t like chemistry I can’t really imagine her doing biology or another science at university.

Nb to keep her options open I do think she needs to stick to the more traditional subjects (history, English, biology, chemistry, maths) rather than subjects like law or psychology, interesting though they are likely to be.

I guess her school doesn’t have an IB option? That’s what I would have loved to do as I was an all-rounder and wanted to do a broader range of subjects than A levels would allow.