Do you think parents would welcome private careers tutoring?

[catsharingmychair]

Hi

Can you help me make a decision?

I currently work (part time) as a fully qualified Careers Guidance Practitioner. I am on the official Register of Professionals (Career Development Institute), am qualified in psychometric evaluations and work on behalf of both a County Council and other agencies, providing Careers Guidance to school and college-aged young people.

Currently in my county, Careers Advisers only work in schools for ONE (or maximum two) days a week in each school. Across the UK Careers is now a 'sold service' i.e. schools buy in Careers Guidance. As opposed to schools having Careers Advisers, on site, for five days a week - paid for by the government.

Other counties do still offer a five day a week service - as they've found their own funding within schools, which is brilliant! The difference in service provision is immense - their pupils receive really good support- some are even offered Morrisby or Centigrade psychometrics (like independent schools). Resources are available and luxuries like 'dropping in' to the careers service is possible. This is not necessarily the case in my county - Careers Advisers are contracted to do 6 or 7 interviews and this takes up the whole day. So in our county, Year 7-11 pupils can't just 'pop in' to see us- as and when they come up with questions- each minute is accounted for. They would need to wait until the sessions end at 3pm - then they would miss the bus home...

I find it so incredibly frustrating to not be able to provide good, professional support. Also, with 200+ children in Year 10 or 11 to see- I never get to see the same young person twice. I feel this approach is failing them, wholesale.

There is so much you can do to help a young person self evaluate and understand which career and pathway could really suit them and bring them career contentment.

So if they are no longer providing it in schools - do you think parents would ever pay for this?

Sessions cost the same as a maths tutor and I usually see young people two or three times (with homework in between). I also provide sessions for parents to show them how best to help with degree research, summer residentials and UCAS applications.

Thanks for bearing with this very long message!

x

Isn't it something that parents just do?
I started with mine when they were about 14, it helped when choosing their options.
They accessed their own research for post compulsory college and uni as our careers service and school were pretty useless.
It could be a good idea I suppose for parents who work and don't have the time for such things.
It isn't difficult though, so I think the can't be bothered or too busy would be your clientelle.

I'm not at that stage with my own kids yet, but my parents did exactly that for me in my final year of school (in Ireland, so system different).

In my case we had a full time career guidance teacher, but I wasn't a priority for her - because I got high results in all the test, was very academic and would probably get into whichever course I chose. So she (understandably in many ways) focused on other students.

The problem was, I had no idea what I wanted to do. I veered from Engineering to Medicine to Law to History. All in the space of a couple of weeks.

The private guidance person was great, pointed me in the direction of a few different options, and helped me look at courses in a different light.

It was also useful for me on a basic level as not being dismissed as "oh sure Vi will be fine whatever she chooses", and actually getting more time to consider my options.

So I can certainly see the value of it.

Isn't it something that parents just do?

Not all teenagers listen to their parents though. And not all parents have 20/20 vision when it comes to careers. My DDad had a bee in his bonnet for years about accountancy and how either DB or I should do it. Neither of us had any interest. And my parents were self-aware enough to know that an outside voice with more/better/different information couldn't harm.

I think careers is one of those things that every parent thinks they can do well themselves but at the same time expects their dcs' school to do a better job for them (like sex education .

Offering careers guidance privately is actually a reasonable proposition considering the current situation in schools but I could foresee some tricky situations arising if your guidance doesn't coincide with what the parents want for their dc. How do you remain impartial when it's the parents who'll be writing the cheques? Jessica has this ridiculous idea that she wants to be a builder but we've been planning for her to do medicine since the age of 5. Please put her straight.

Just the other day, a parent on here was furious that a careers adviser had suggested the army as one possible option to her sporty, forces-minded ds. If that parent had had to pay the careers adviser I think she would have been demanding a refund.

It's an absolute disgrace that the government has let this situation arise.

vvvviola

i didn't have 20/20 vision, I just went through their interests and then what sort of jobs suited those interests, what courses were available, where, what GCSE's they were looking for etc.
i knew anything medical/caring was out of the question for ds2 as he faints at the drop of a hat, to blood, gore or needles.
I knew that ds1 was good at sport and he would like to work in this area and others, he was good at and liked business too.
It's hardly rocket science and they don't need to listen to you or do as they are told if you are just passing on info. and advising on what is available for their interests or talents.
then, you can start to look further afield at maybe second choices. I spent one night a week from them being about 14, also including cv writing, tailoring it for specific jobs, interview techniques etc.
I had to do this as school was useless and careers advice didn't know what I found out.
I do see why some people would pay though, you need to put in the effort to do it by yourself and some parents haven't the time or inclination.

Thanks all. Interesting replies!

Morethanpotatoprints - I agree, parents are well placed to know and help their own children - and I agree with Haffdonga too that parents sometimes seek to influence choices (for many reasons) - in response to this, the ethics of the CDI are clear - the client is the young person and impartiality is mandatory...you can however, help families to delve deeper into why parents have specific preferences and help resolve these. Often parents are worried their children won't be financially secure in x or y career. It can sometimes be a question of giving young people the information (and confidence) to provide evidence to show how they would be able to support themselves in x or y career.

It's worth knowing that parents may not have visibility of new changes coming down stream - I remember one student who missed the boat on Midwifery as she'd done the Level 3 Extended BTEC in Health and Social Care and thought this would be enough. She didn't know the industry would soon change to also needing an AS or A2 in Biology. She'd not seen this until she applied to uni in Year 13 and realised she should have done an additional AS in Year 13. Colleges have no way of helping 2000 individual students with a full guidance service. Especially as someone has said here, if they are capable of many specialisms - for this they need psychometric support, dialogue & lots of work shadowing to help them prioritise.

Also - parents are often happy that children have finally picked something they seem to love- the process is exhausting! This means that they then might not necessarily challenge it enough to sanity check. The fact that many universities do not insist on interviews for many courses means often students are not asked to rationalise why this and not that?

For example - Business Studies - all well and good- but it is seen in the field as being a bit of a delaying tactic - to avoid taking the time to decide on one key area of business (which they could gain via reading/work experience/shadowing/industry events). Most students have not heard of Operations, Facilities Management, Purchasing, Commercial Law, HR -so this needs explaining! Also, if they are assisted to fully understand the private, public and charitable sector BEFORE choosing a degree and going on university summer schools to test drive subjects then they might well find themselves not choosing the very general 'business' but specialising in PR, Marketing, Accountancy, HR degrees and coming out of university really ready to go into a role. Business Studies can of course apply for milk round roles but it is true that employers love students who know exactly what they want to do- as they have taken the time to find out and get trained in it! Many marketing (digital media) and PR graduates are snapped up well before they have graduated as they have already established a reputation within the industry.

So parental support is vital and integral to the process but just like maths and other subjects it can help to have a trained expert (we now need to be degree or Masters level educated in careers guidance to work in schools) to oversee that your child is researching fully enough - and using all the tools (free and otherwise) to help them avoid mistakes.

35,000 students abandoned their degree in Year 1 in 2011- how upsetting for them and their families. Even worse, most may have ended up paying the fees for the whole year if their course was oversubscribed.

OP

I had completely overlooked this, of course. There would be parents who would try to persuade or disuade.
my own dh mum wanted him to have a steady job, like bank manager or similar. She ws heart broken when he decided to be a musician.

I didn't mean to sound like I belittled your skills btw, there will be lots of things you will know about that most parents couldn't access.
Just a point maybe to consider is your market/fees.
Do you think the mc that could afford to pay are more likely to be the parents who want Johnny to become a banker, solicitor, doctor and the dc have little choice in the matter?

I have just been reading the Ofsted Report into the need for schools to achieve better outcomes for the talented children, especially in non selective schools. The report mentions the lack of advice given regarding careers and university choice and the fact that some schools still shy away from promoting the best universities to their higher achieving young people. If you read this report, OP, I think you really could make a difference if you pitch at these types of schools and these types of pupils. I can get the full title of the report if you want it but it is fairly obvious on the Ofsted site.

MN parents may well have all the information and have well informed children, but many others, from different backgrounds, have to rely on the school and according to this report, many are being failed because the advice they receive is poor. This is not just choosing the right subjects to study, but the school not aspiring to the very best universities for these pupils because they believe it is being "elitist". I think you need to get the schools to pay, however, because you need to aim for the bright but not well off children. There was a list of schools that were part of the Ofsted report at the end of it. You could test the water with them.

I sometimes feel a out of my depth with the careers advice and universities. I didn't go to uni myself and now some will accept Btecs and some don't.

My DD's career advice at college can only be described as a complete car crash.

We will see what my DS's is like!

I don't want to be seen as a parent who controls my DCs life but parents seem to get excluded from the whole process. It would be useful to get the info first hand but also you may have questions that the DCs hadn't thought of.

I also think careers advice is a somewhat outdated name and stems from the days when only a few - less than 10% went to university. The rest needed a local career. The university bound needed to decide if they wanted to study Geography or English and teachers were quite well placed to help with this dilemma. What they were not well placed to know about was the local apprenticeship/job market - hence the careers officer. Three years of study at university gave the others an opprtunity to think about a career. Lots did not know beforehand what they would do and plenty of university graduates still do not know after completing their degrees!

We now have nearly 50% of young people aspiring to a university degree. There are now significantly more vocational degrees than previously available. Marketing, Sports Science and HR degrees just were not offered. Now they are, so the Higher Education sector is more of a minefield, especially to the uninformed. I think this leads to high drop out rates at some universities because people are square pegs in round holes due to poor advice. Or they take the wrong A levels for the courses they subsequently want. Or they only look at the lower tier of universities when they could get into a top class one. All of this needs explaining before A level choices are made. Parents should be involved at all stages but many schools leave it to the children. There is plenty of advice on University web sites regarding what qualifications they accept and what they do not. However, this needs to be looked at before deciding on which A levels or BTecs and schools should encourage parents to work with their children on sifting such advice. Schools should also encourage children to aim high. If a child can get into a top class university, why should the school tell them they are being elitist?

Milly I understand what you are saying but therein lies a problem. Not every high achieving pupil wants to go to a higher tier uni or should, but schools are desperately trying to get their dcs into unis at the expense of advising students on alternatives.

My ds's sixth form advice (an academically successful comp competing directly with other local academically successful comps) focuses almost exclusively on uni entrance, UCAS, Oxbridge, etc as that is what they're measured on. Ds has never even been told about about non uni options and apprenticeships except in passing ( and if anyone wants to know about apprenticeships then look on the website ).

The sort of scenario you envisage is exactly where Cat's impartiality is vital and potentially could be compromised by ambitious parents and schools advocating the top tier unis to 'good' students for whom non academic options may be more motivating. To do a good job Cat cannot be pushing the 'top tier' options unless that route is a choice made as a result of very careful thought-through guidance considering all alternatives.

I absolutely agree schools should be paying for this - but unfortunately they won't. They don't have the resources and any Pupil Premium money (to support students who also get free school lunches) seems to go into tutoring in the core subjects for those that need it - which is understandable.

Nor will colleges pay either- they actually, for the main part have very good careers teams - so struggle to see why students don't get much time with them or seem to get the very latest in apprenticeship info and support. Ironically it is the most academic colleges that seem to 'forget' to encourage students to also research Higher Level Apprenticeships..

I have offered top local colleges to come in and speak to students about fully sponsored degrees (paid for by employers). Able students really ought to get the opportunity to go for these. They involve being able to go fully to university and then work each holiday (paid) for the employer. Some even pay them a full salary to be a student each year. Do they hear about these - probably not- and these are the ones who could most benefit.

I have also offered colleges to come in and help Year 13's to research and identify degree level apprenticeships. Then support them through the application process. This includes, for Higher Level Apprenticeships, a suite of rather daunting options including : ability psychometric, 1:1 interview, assessment centre, group tasks, panel interview, presentation. So no nibbles there either.

The worst thing is that students are all told to go to the National Apprenticeship Service for the best apprenticeships. But they are not listed there! I speak to employers and training providers constantly and they say they find it really unwieldy and so they advertise elsewhere. You have to have the contacts for each sector to be able to recommend where to look for the L4-7 apprenticeships. It takes time to find them and forge links with providers - time colleges do not have, or do not seem to have.

The main problem is that schools are only really measured on GCSE results currently. One day I hope colleges will be measured I hope on college drop out rates in the autumn term- this would mean their admissions interviews did more than ask rather basic questions - it would be a full guidance interview to sanity check each student's thought process.

I have come from 15 years of providing Outplacement/Redundancy support to adults on behalf of consultancies (then did a Masters in Guidance for younger people) and worked in schools for MUCH less money! But the point of mentioning it is as I find it hugely ironic that we give adults a number of weeks of self evaluation and psychometric support and coaching to enable them to prioritise and make decisions. Then support them through the whole application process- what do we offer young people (who need this help even more)...a 45 minute interview at the wrong time of year to do any real good!

Thanks for posting!

Millymollymama - thanks I will take a look at Ofsted.

I have also just read the new statutory guidance for schools ref Careers Guidance. It is portrayed as a 'must have' for schools to offer Year 8-Year 11 guidance interviewing. So one session, per child, per year.

I don't even get to see all of the Year 11's in most schools over a year's period - so this is a great aim, and one which I'd fully support- but it would need funding galore to expedite! It would need several careers advisers over several days - or back to a full time careers adviser in schools! Yippie!