Btec or AS for dc with health/attendance issues

[Runningtokeepstill]

My ds, Yr 11, was hoping to do 3 AS's at college next year but his health issues are causing problems again and he's currently off sick using online education resources.

He was aiming for Maths, Computing and IT all at AS this year and hopefully continuing to A2 next but it has been suggested that an IT (Business) Btec extended diploma might be a good option. There isn't much difference in the grades he needs (can drop from a B to a C in Maths for Btec but otherwise C grades fine). AS courses run over 5 days with free periods as well as lessons. Btec run as 3 full days and 2 days private study - so he could be at home then. However, Btec is coursework based so would this be difficult/impossible to do if he had a bad flare up and was off for weeks/months? Obviously he'd find it hard with flare ups if he was studying AS but he could study at home. I'm not sure how much of the Btec coursework actually has to be done in college to "count".

My son is (Y12) doing extended diploma in a different subject. So far all the coursework has been assignments rather than the kind of coursework they have to do in lesson for GCSE. Whether that it the same for IT.

How long do the flare ups last. My son normally has about 2 week for an assignment. Would that be enough time if he was ok when work set he got on with it straightaway or have the flare up and then do the work? My son is getting good marks and he does not spend 2 weeks doing the assignments!

I would also speak to the college. My son's tutors are strict about handing work in but would there be lee way in your son's case? If it is an option have a look at more than one college. One may be more suited to his health issues than another

If he did the AS/A2 how would he cope if he had a flare up during the exam period?

Hope I have been of some help OP

I would think btec would be the safer option. Many module assignments can be done at home and time extensions granted in case of I'll health, or redone the following year if it was a first year unit. in the worst case if he did fail a module or two at least he would be awarded the non extended diploma, whereas with a levels I would think there was a greater risk of coming away with nothing.

Thanks for the replies. We've now got a few more issues to discuss with the college and can then see what they think. I'm favouring Btec myself as I think it would be easier for ds to handle in his circumstances. He previously said he didn't want to go down the vocational route yet as he thought it would be too limiting. Recently he's been reconsidering as he's missed so much school his choices at AS are quite limited anyway so there's not much difference, in subject breadth, between what he could do at AS and at Btec.

His flare ups can be days or months (psychological factors kick in) so it's very hard to say how the future will pan out. He improved considerably for a several months but has been much worse this winter and is now off school completely. He's just had an assessment at a national specialist hospital and we're waiting to see if they can come up with anything different to help him get more in control.

There aren't any other colleges to choose from without quite a bit of traveling and he feels this would be too difficult if he's having an off day. Ds was supposed to meet with someone at college today to discuss Btec further but as he's just gone down with a sick bug, we've had to cancel. Frustrating!

So far the college has seemed very sympathetic to ds's situation so I'm hopeful that they can offer support whichever route he decides to take.

If the flare ups could last for months it would be awful if that for during exams. At least with BTEC only some modules would be unfinished with possible the chance to hand in later

Hope it works out. A lot of unis accept BTEC nowadays

I teach BTEC - different subject but same rules.

A lot of the course work can be done at home, in fact sometimes it's better that way. If the college know beforehand they can also put things in place to support him.

You mentioned 'flare up' so I'm thinking this is a changeable condition, if it's something like writing he can't do but is mentally OK (that's sounds patronising but I have arthritis and can think what I want to write but not always write it) then using dictation software or having a TA can work.

i had one student who missed a lot and I made a 'pack' for her to complete over the summer, it was a different unit to the ones being studied in college but could be counted for her to get the number up to 18 (I think, things change), it wasn't an easy option as she had no teaching and had to do it alone but it is something that can be done..

Another thing about BTEC is that you can leave after 1 year and still have a qualification at Level 3, and you can take an AS or A Level along side, to go along with BTEC Computing I'd suggest Maths AS level in case he wants to go down a programming route for uni.

Thanks sashh, it's useful to have a tutor's perspective. If ds goes down the Btec route, it would be just that course as they do the extended diploma which counts as equivalent to 3 A levels. He's already needing a dispensation to do this level of course as he is now being entered into a very small number of GCSE's so there's no prospect of doing an A level on top of that.

We've resheduled the chat with one of the Btec course tutors for next week (I'm involved in this as ds hates talking about his illness so I've agreed to go along and do that bit). I also managed to have a quick chat on the phone. As expected, the tutor stressed the need for high attendance and I wouldn't disagree if it were possible. But he seemed to feel working at home during flare ups would be achievable for the self motivated so I'm more positive about ds's prospects.

Glad things are working out Running

Update
Ds has had his Btec interview and an offer for that course too. Having also had an interview for AS courses, he's decided that the Btec would suit him best so he's accepting that.

Now all he has to do is get well enough to get through his gcse's

Brilliant news!

Good luck for the exam results

I teach Science BTEC. There is absolutly no way the course can be completed with poor attendance. AS is a far batter bet, as you can study those at home. BTECs are vocational qualifications, the teacher has to see you completing practical and academic tasks in the classroom. There is no leeway, and no room in the timetable to keep repeating sessions because someone has missed them. This is the same in every BTEC subject.

Well, my ds has an offer of the Btec course which he's accepted. He was interviewed by a senior course tutor who was made aware of ds health issues and thought it could be manageable provided ds was self motivated, which he is. At the moment we're waiting to hear about an inpatient admission, after GCSE's, to a specialist centre for adolescents which I hope will help ds to get more control of his health before he starts college.

No one thinks his attendance pattern is good, nor is there an expectation that lessons will be repeated for his benefit. But if he misses some lessons there should be a mechanism for catching up and we have been assured that the college can help with this. We both feel very positive about this.

But what I'm saying is activities DO have to be repeated, because each student has to complete each activity in front of a witness, most likely the teacher.

Each activity that a student misses is listed and retimetabled. This includes early morning and late nights. We normally have the catch ups at the end of each term, although if there are two catch up nights, and a student has missed more than two activities, they cannot catch up and will need to drop a unit. Similarly, if a student misses a catch up, they are also disqualified from that unit.

Any student with poor attendance will be weeded out by this process during the first term, and the ones that continue know better than to miss any lessons! Generally, any that pass the first term will pass, although there is always one or two who'e attendance deteriorates, and they will not complete the full number of units.

I did ask specifically if all assessments needed to be completed in college and was told not. My son would be missing lessons due to a diagnosed medical condition and not because he isn't bothered. There is provision to support students with medical conditions and I have been told he will be supported. I shall continue to believe what the college has told us.

it doesn't make the slightest difference WHY an activity is missed. Any more than it would matter WHY you missed your driving test. If you are not there to do it, you will not pass. Full stop. The college can say what they like to get bums on seats. It isn't up to them. They will be required to act as instructed by the exam board.

But he wouldn't be missing the work, just sometimes doing it at home. Another poster/tutor has said that on their BTEC course it would be possible to complete work at home so perhaps the courses aren't all the same as Science.

I'm not entering into any further discussion about this as I think it is extremely unlikely that the college tutor lied to get my ds on his course. At the time of the interview ds was definitely planning to do AS courses so there would be no need for the tutor to lie. My son gave no indication of changing his mind until after the interview.

So far my son has not had to do any assignments where he has had to be at college - they have all been done at home. Whether he will have any to be done at college we have yet to find out.

To be honest your DS has to do something as they can't leave education so I would just cross the bridge if you need to. There might be a need to attend but whose to say that your DS won't be going through a good period so it won't be an issue.

All the best.

Just take a look for your self, I've only glanced at the first two units very breifly, and yet have come across 6 assessed class room tasks straight away, just to get through with the bare minimum pass, without even looking at the merit level tasks.

In the first unit your son will be required, amongst other things, to make a presentation to the class, and to assess the presentations of others. A bit difficult if he is not there. In unit 2 I found the following assessed class room tasks:

2set up a standalone computer
system, installing hardware
and software components
[SM3]

P6 configure a computer system
to meet user needs

P7 test a configured computer
system for functionality

P8 undertake routine
maintenance tasks on a
standalone computer system

What you don't seem to get is these are ASSESSMENTS. all students need to be present during the demonstration, and PRESENT DURING THE ASSESSMENT, just to get the minimum pass mark. This is not something you can do at home, you need to be in the class room, with the assessor, with the equipment.

Look at the spec for yourself,

You cannot do a BTEC if you are not present for the lessons, never mind doing the exams.
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And what about controlled assessments? course work done under controlled conditions, in front of the teacher, who needs to be able to guarantee to the exam board that is was done individually, and without communication with anyone else.

You need to get real. I am sick to the back teeth of BTEC being used as a dustbin. it is a serious, valuable, rigorous and worth while qualification, requiring students to demonstrate high levels of attendance, punctuality, commitment, reliability, skill and ability. And by demonstrate, I mean do it in front of the teacher.

It is not something you can just cobble together on your own at home.

you need a book based subject ( preferable with no coursework, controlled assessment or practicals) If you want to teach your self alone at home.

I get parents whining to me every year that it is "not fair" to fail their child for ill health, they just don't seem to get that if their child is not in, then they are not doing the tasks required to pass.

Charis are you aware you are obliged to make reasonable adjustments for your students if illness or disability requires it? No one is dumbing down BTECs. Just making OP aware that they can be more flexible in terms of when assessments happen which is not the case with A levels.

Sash is also a BTEC tutor and her responses have been significantly more helpful than yours which only serve to highlight the chip on your shoulder. I wonder which of you is more supportive.....

titchy, there is reasonable adjustment, and there is out and out insanity. As I said, try explaining to a driving test examiner that you think it is unfair to fail your child simply for not showing up...........and saying "it isn't their fault-they are not well"

If you're ill on the day of your driving test you reschedule. You don't throw in the towel and not bother with any more lessons.

and can I also point out that even for the occasional absence, there is absolutly no time or resources leeway in a school AT ALL for the type of "reasonable adjustments" that parents and students feel they have a right to demand, that any teachers attempting to providing them are doing so not only voluntarily, but at a huge cost not only to their own family lives, but to their own legal position.

Just LOOK at the criteria I copied. BTEC is a course that teachers HAVE to witness the students completing. All I did was glance through the pass level criteria or two units, there will be 18 similar units in all, and I didn't even other to read the merit and distinction criteria.

Just look for yourself. If a student is not there to see a demonstration and assessment of p6 for example, what do you think is going to happen? It is going to be retimetabled .

How and when do you think that is going to happen?

Typically you will need to book a room, and requisition the equipment. Room bookings will be done through admin, and requisitioning through technicians. Typically each will take a week's notice ( keep in mind that admin and technicians will be dealing with hundreds of regular requests each week, and will have deadlines, etc, maybe even earlier deadlines for these extra resits) then it is likely to be after school, as the rooms and staff are obviously timetabled fully during the week. You will therefore need another member of staff present to chaperone, and will have to delay the cleaning. So admin, cleaning, technical and teaching staff all booked in a week in advance ( do keep in mind that this is voluntary for the teacher, and not only that, but they are putting themselves legally in the wrong to do it)

What if the student misses the resit too?

this is just for one criteria in one unit, like I said there will be 18 units, and teachers have to observe the students not only in the practical components, but also completing the written tasks as controlled assessments.

that is why resits are typically timetabled in all together in one week at the end of term, and why individual students can only realistically attempt a limited number, as they will be running simultaneously.

Just LOOK AT THE CRITERIA!

You can see what a disaster it is when poor attenders attempt a BTEC Course. it cannot be done.

If you're ill on the day of your driving test you reschedule. You don't throw in the towel and not bother with any more lessons

and if you fail a BTEC through poor attendance you can resit the year,(once) - but you will still have to turn up for the resit year!

You are being totally ignorant, unrealistic and quite ridiculous. Unfortunately, school are totally drained of thousands of pounds and thousands of staff hours every year by students and families equally unrealistic.

If your attendance is likely to be poor and you will be learning at home, ACADEMIC COURSES - NOT VOCATIONAL

and can I also point out that even for the occasional absence, there is absolutly no time or resources leeway in a school AT ALL for the type of "reasonable adjustments" that parents and students feel they have a right to demand

I think you will find that the OP is talking about college not school.

Also the adjustments ARE a right. They are enshrined in law.

Will I redo a practical assessment for a student who is lazy and can't be bothered to get out of bed - will I hell.

Will I spend a lunch break or an evening with a student who has been ill or who has long term health issues, damn right I will.

Will I get a first year to present to a second year class because they missed presenting to their own class FOR A GOOD REASON then yes I will.

And back to this being in college not school, students are in 9-5, sometimes 9-9pm, as are teachers (actually teachers are often in between 7.30 and 8) so scheduling evening catch up is not that difficult. Some colleges open on Saturdays too. I taught at one college that opened at 6am Mon - Sat. There were no classes scheduled at that time but it was an ideal time to do some catch up.

Similarly colleges often have classes dedicated to one particular subject area and set up 24/7. Most have small rooms, often in the library, for 1-1 sessions, and as they usually have a glass wall and the librarian can see in chaperoning isn't a problem.

The college I'm currently at has 600+ staff and about 10 000 students - no I didn't put in an extra 0.

Don't judge all educational establishments with your school, and don't label students with medical needs as 'demanding'.

As for the driving test analogy, well you can take a driving test in a car with hand controls, with an interpreter, with your instructor accompanying you, with a friend for moral support - ie 'reasonable adjustments'.

In the first unit your son will be required, amongst other things, to make a presentation to the class, and to assess the presentations of others. A bit difficult if he is not there.

Ever heard of skype? Every student has a mobile that records video now, presentations can be filmed and Q and A can be done via skype. In fact BTEC EV quite like video so they can see the actual presentation not just a witness statement.

In fact 10 years ago I was recording students for the 'communication' unit I teach.

My suggestion would be BTEC. A level 3 is the equivalent to A-Level. It won't stop you children getting into university, unless they want to do something that specifically requests a certain subject at A-level. BTEC will allow them work from home if necessary and is a little easier to catch up on

In terms of attendance, be honest with the college as to why, you don't have to give really personal details though. When I enrol Learners onto my courses (1,2 and 3) in august and I see the attendance records it's normally enough to set alarm bells ringing unless there is a valid reason.

What careers are your DC thinking off? Sometimes vocational is much better than A-level depending on what it is they want to go in to and vice versa.

If you want to message me I'm happy to answer any questions, I've been teaching in FE for 8 years now.