I do not know what to do about this - all opinions and advice appreciated, from anyone on mumsnet, not just foster carers

[Lauriefairycake]

We have a foster child who has been asked to compile a list of £200 worth of Christmas presents to give to her mum so her mum can buy them for her.

Unfortunately there is friction with the sort of things she buys, she has not been allowed her birthday present apart from for parties and under supervision as they are not suitable for a 10 year old. Her mum was angry and brought it up with her and said she had gone into debt to buy them.

So this is also going to happen at Christmas and foster child wants to open some at her Christmas contact but also to save some for Christmas day - but she said her mum would be upset if she asked

We are also, obviously, planning to buy her Christmas presents but we are becoming uncomfortable with just how much she will have and want to get the balance right as it feels like a right tightrope (particularly if mum buys her more inappropriate gifts that she can't have) and we buy her age-appropriate stuff (thinking of a bike and some riding lessons)

I don't know what I'm asking really - just some ideas about what to do. If we only buy her a small stocking of gifts she will have nothing to open on the day and it could be bad if her mum has bought her loads of stuff only for occasional use.

And if we go ahead with buying her a bike etc she will end up with more than £500 worth of presents (once other members of her birth family and small gifts from our relatives). And this makes me uncomfortable.

I really like the idea you had of riding lessons as the contact with the animals and learning a new skill will really boost her self esteem. Is there anything that can be suggested around that, ie boots/hat so that mum can be part of that experience too? It's also not another 'thing' to be played with and moved on from, but something that will add to her life experience.

Is there any way that SS can work with mum to make it something appropriate and affordable - I appreciate that there are complex reasons for mum buying these presents and going into debt for them.

IMO you should get her the bike if that's what you would have done anyway, especially if you can't rely on the nature of her mum's presents. She won't be able to understand all the ins and outs of this and might be hurt that you haven't got her a 'proper' present?

Is the mum likely to disregard the list, or will your foster child ask for completely unsuitable items?

Is there any way you can help the child to compile the list, trying your best to add stuff that the mum might want to buy and could be used/played with, even if not to your usual taste?

I wish we could involve her mum (who called me various unsavoury swear words at last meeting) but we can't. She insists on buying proper make-up (not play make-up) perfume, playboy accessories, ghd's, high heels. She has already been exposed to highly sexualised behaviour and abuse so we really try to minimise that sort of thing.

Instead we have her doing football, dance classes and self-defence for her self esteem.

I know she won't be able to understand but she was upset only yesterday at the thought her mum would buy her stuff she wouldn't be allowed to open on Christmas Day.

We want to buy her the appropriate presents but we are definitely setting up for resentment in the future when she sees that the ones she was allowed were all ones we had given her.

And it is too much, right? I don't know anyone who would get £500 worth of presents - it will be really obvious that dh and I will spend about £50 on each other.

foster child has already compiled the list with my help but we seriously couldn't find more than a 100's worth of gifts - she ended up putting down a DS Lite (even though we have a wii) as she just doesn't need anything or want anything. So that means that there will be a 100 pounds worth of more adult gifts.

She put riding boots on but her mum said no as 'clothes shouldn't be bought for Christmas, only fun stuff'

Sorry, I really don't have any experience in this area, but wanted to post anyway - feel free to ignore if I've misunderstood the situation.

I think you should definitely get her the riding lessons as you plan - since this isn't something you "open" on Xmas day anyway.

If the birth mum is to be given a list, can you put the bike etc. on that list and then if they don't appear get it later yourselves?

I'm not sure I understand this bit of your post:

"So this is also going to happen at Christmas and foster child wants to open some at her Christmas contact but also to save some for Christmas day - but she said her mum would be upset if she asked"

Do you mean your foster child would like to save some of the presents to open on Xmas day but that the birth mum would want her to open them all at Christmas Contact? That's very hard, but maybe if it was communicated ahead of time by the social workers, it might help the birth mum to understand?

When I was younger I was in foster care and my birth mother used to spend far too much on me and it caused real problems with the natural children in the family and in fact they used to just take some things, like sweets, etc, off me.

I would buy what you would normally buy for your natural children, buy something not obviously less for the foster child and enlist the social services as a go between as £200 is not necessary to be spent on a young child. I would also tell the child she can open all her presents with her mother as she will have gifts from you to open on the day.

Good point mrsgboring, I will bring it up with the social worker when I see her.

And I think its fine if she opened them with her birth mother, its the child who doesn't want to - not because she thinks we won't buy her anything but because she is a lovely girl who would like to think of her family on Christmas Day and open some gifts then.

could her "Mum list" include a DSlite, an extras pack and then a selection of DS games this could easily reach £200.

I second having a word with the SW to see if she can help Mum to choose the most suitable gifts.

IME sometimes people make the "wrong" selections based on their own experiences IYKWIM.

Lauriefairycake - she does sound a lovely girl. I thought that would be the reason she wanted to keep some of the presents back for Xmas day.

I think the DS Lite plus extras suggestion is a very good one. Straightforward, expensive (if the mum really wants to spend that money, which I would guess is important to her) and isn't thing after thing to open and worry about.

Is she section 20 or FCO? if the latter, would SW would be able to have more of a say over mum's contribution?
Did her mum set the £200 liit? seems a bit odd if she is going to have to go into debt for it... but I know people do this all the time

Also wondering if perhaps posting this or highlighting this in step families topic- I'm sure this must be a HUGE issue for step families at this time of year.

Hello, I am new to this but though how lovely it is that you are going to so much thought to solve the dilema. I have a suggestion but not sure of all back ground so may be inappropriate, but wouldn't the mum and the child love to have a photograph done together in nice clothing etc which they could both have a copy of and put in their respective bedrooms etc. That kind of gift would be far more meaningful (it was to me when I got one last year for christmas of me and my family). It would take a good chunk of the £200 as well.

Thank-you all for your help. Today she went to her counsellor at the NSPCC and she asked her for some help with this. Her social worker is going to be asked to approach her mum and try and arrange for her to keep some presents to open Christmas Day.

Unfortunately Lizzy - lovely idea though it is - mum is due to give birth to her seventh around Christmas so wouldn't want something like that. Also there was a lot of neglect and abuse so the presents are her way of showing something else - sadly she isn't interested in this lovely child but wants to be seen to do the right thing.

I'm curious as to who decided on the £200 limit - the SW or mum? If mum, could the SW tell her this is too much? If SW, could you point out to them how bad this might make the child feel?

Could you not get her a bike from ebay or the paper? It would bring the "total" spend down to a more reasonable figure whilst also giving her something she wants (and IMO needs). I assume you have a budget in your head so can you give part of that to buying a load of cheap and cheerful things (cheap CDs/DVDs from Play.com or something) to boost the number of gifts she can open on the day without it getting silly.

It is sad that the Mum is more interested in her own gratification than her dds wishes and it would be good (again IMO) for Mum to be made to allow her to open some on Christmas day. I am sure the poor child will get a lot out of it as it will help her to feel some connection to her own family on a day when so much importance is placed on family ties.

I did want to say that it is people like yourself who really care who make a real difference to children in positions like this girl. Your actions now can make a lifetime of difference to this child and it is clear you not only are aware of this but that you take it with all the seriousness it merits. I take my hat off to you and hope you all have a wonderful Christmas together.

Get her whatever you orignally was getting her. I was a foster child and had the same issues My Mother decided to buy me presents which included a mobile phone and other shit Guilt presents!! I had them from her before christmas but then spent christmas day with my foster family opening presents together it was really nice I appreciated them presents more.