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Caring for our murdered daughter's children - Please help.

71 replies

Keelix · 11/10/2019 14:02

We are hoping for some advice with regard to caring for our murdered daughter's 3 children.

I won't go in to the detail of my daughter's murder, other than to say that it was her partner, and father of the 3 children in question, who murdered her. He is now serving a life sentence in prison.

For the last 6 months or so, we have been going through an application for a Special Guardianship Order (SGO) to allow us to take custody of our 3 grandchildren - they are currently in temporary foster care and have been since shortly after our daughter's murder.

Since the beginning of the SGO application, we have made it clear to the local authority (LA) that we need a little financial support to pay for one of the children's nursery childcare. We both work and can not afford for one of us to give up working, nor can we afford the nursery fees.

We have made it clear to the LA that the support that we're requesting only needs to be provided until such time as our grandchild starts full time school - in less than 2 years time.

We are quite prepared to absorb all the additional costs that come with raising children from toddler stage, into adulthood and beyond. But we simply do not have the £550 per month needed to top up the statutory nursery allowance until he turns 3 years and one term, and then the £350 per month required from that date until he starts school in September 2021.

We are prepared to find our way to paying all other costs, including the cost of childcare during school holidays for the school age children.

We have made this position clear to the LA since the very first meeting. It's not a case of us 'wanting' their money, it's a case of us not being able to afford to care for our grandchildren without it.

Given the circumstances that have led us to the position of having to care for them, one might have thought that the LA would help as much as they could. After all, it is not as if we just woke up one morning and decided that we wanted to care for them. We're here because their mother was murdered by their father!

Despite us making it clear that we need this help, we went to court this week for what we thought was the final SGO hearing, where we thought that the judge would agree to our SGO and the children would be with us within 2 weeks. In fact, the LA had a agreed a transition plan with us, where they come and stay with us for weekends, and we increase our day visits with them. This transition plan was only put in place and agreed by the various authorities, because it was acknowledge that the placement would be made this week; that it was essentially a foregone conclusion.

We also (naively) believed that having made our need for support very clear at every stage, that the LA must have been in agreement, because if they were not, how could they have progressed the process to the point that the transition from LA care to our care had already been agreed and was being actioned.

We now realise that the social workers that we were in regular contact with from the LA had not made our position regarding child care support clear to their superiors. We went to court this week having had no firm offer of financial help, but for the reasons explained above, we assumed that it would be.

What a mistake that was on our part! Minutes before the judge was due to hear the case, the LA authority told us that they could offer us £17.95 per week in support! We told them in no uncertain terms that it would be impossible for us to care for the children with that level of support, but they held firm. Ultimately, the judge then heard the case and was told that we were making our offer of care conditional on financial support (we were not, and never have been allowed into the courtroom to make our own case!).

The judge - thinking that we had changed our position at the last moment, was apparently very angry with us and has suspended the impending placement and transition plan.

We now feel utterly destroyed and mistreated by the LA. We accept that technically, our ability to provide care IS conditional on us receiving financial support, but not in the context that it was presented to the judge. Without us having the opportunity to present our views and concerns to the judge personally, we are entirely reliant upon the LA and other parties inside the courtroom to present our position. Unfortunately, not only have they not accurately represented our position, they've actually MISrepresented our position.

In our view, they've done that deliberately. We feel that they've known for months that they would only offer us £17.95 per week towards the £550 per month child care cost, but knew that we could not accept it. They thought that if they progressed the case to the point of it reaching the final hearing, that we would feel that we simply had to accept whatever they said.

They clearly thought that we were insincere when we said that we simply didn't have an additional £550 per month in hard cash to hand over to child care providers. Certainly not on top of all the other additional costs of raising young children that we would start to incur too.

The LA say that there are no mechanisms in place for them to offer any further help - for them, we've been means tested and in their opinion, we can and should just find that money! Despite their repeated claims that they don't have a magic money tree, that's precisely what they think we have!

So, that's the background; why am I here asking for your advice??

The court has now instructed us to seek legal advice as to what we should do next. We are doing just that, but I also want to reach out to the community for advice.

We are advised that we need to explore other potential care plans other than an SGO. Whilst an SGO would have given us the parental responsibility that we would like, it seems that it does not offer us the support that we need. It is suggest that other arrangements might.

Can the community offer us any advice as to which other type of care arrangement might work for us and might allow the various authorities to support us with the child care costs that we need? Could we foster them for the short term until our grandson starts school and then seek an SGO or adoption at that point? Would a family foster arrangement provide the short term financial support that we need? If not, are there other types of care order that might?

Please understand, that despite what the judge now apparently believes, we are not looking to care for our wonderful grandchildren in order to benefit from a payday! In fact, the mere suggestion of that makes me feel sick! All we need is support for 1 year and 10 months for childcare and we will find the money for everything else associated with caring for, and raising children to adulthood. Once our grandson starts full time school, the problem disappears and we will not seek a further penny from the LA.

We will of course seek this advice from our solicitor, but in my experience, it's always better to take potential options to a solicitor, than it is to just turn up and ask them what we should do!

Any advice or helpful views on this really distressing situation is very much appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

OP posts:
GloriaMaximus · 11/10/2019 17:34

Sorry cross post.

Nat6999 · 11/10/2019 17:37

Speak to the Victim support, from what I have read, you should be able to claim on behalf of your grandchildren, yourselves & your late daughter, they may pay towards the costs of the funeral as well. I understand that no amount of money can replace your daughter, but to give your grandchildren the best futures, you need to have enough money. You also may be able to claim for loss of earnings if you have to reduce working hours or give up work in order to bring up the children.

Namechangeforthiscancershit · 11/10/2019 17:42

It does sound like fostering the children might work out better financially. It's a relatively short period which you need to get past as the youngest will be in school before too long.

So alternatively it's roughly £10k which you need to find. Have you explored the criminal compensation angle?

It does seem odd that a child who's been through so much trauma will be ok with nursery but in a way quite heartening to hear. The staff at the nursery must be incredible. As are you and your husband of course. Thanks

Bellringer · 11/10/2019 17:54

Isn't there a guardians allowance? With hindsight they might have made you kinship carers with fostering allowance, but guardianship will be better because you will have pr. your lawyer needs to kick up a terrible stink.
Winstons wish is a fabulous organisation that works with bereaved children and their families. Hope all works out ok, so distressing.

idril · 11/10/2019 17:59

If all else fails, I'd be tempted to do a crowdfunder. If you just need £550 month for 2 years, it's not like you are asking for that much.

So sorry for your loss and for your poor grandchildren. I can't believe this is happening after all they must have been through.

WhatWouldTheDoctorDo · 11/10/2019 18:12

Like others have said, have you looked into criminal injuries compensation? We've had to do this in a different tragic situation, and costs incurred as a result were taken into account. It did take a couple of years all to be sorted though. If you haven't looked into this, please take some legal advice on it ASAP.

In terms of childcare costs, if you won't be eligible for help with your costs via universal credits, as you both work, you may be entitled to tax free childcare which helps towards the cost of childcare. It won't cover all the costs, but will help with some of it.

I hope you figure it out, and I'm very sorry for your loss.

Zzz1234 · 11/10/2019 18:27

Please read this
www.ridleyhall.co.uk/chesterfield-carer-settles-court-challenge-with-derbyshire-county-council/
What they are doing is wrong.

yellowallpaper · 11/10/2019 18:49

So sorry for your loss. Have you considered family fostering as this pays you to care for the children?

Sorry not to have understood all the intricacies of the case, but I know of a couple who long term foster a disabled child and despite the fact he is virtually their child, they would lose so much financial support if they adopted him.

danni0509 · 11/10/2019 19:05

What an awful situation for you. I'm so sorry for your loss, and the loss to your grandchildren. Thanks

As someone previously mentioned, I would donate to a crowdfunding page for you. X

user1493413286 · 11/10/2019 19:14

I would get in contact with “grandparents plus” they’re a really good and helpful organisation for people in your situation.
You could request to be kinship foster carers and seek an SGO; that would certainly provide more financial support. I would recommend going back to the LA for more support under an SGO; it does happen that more money is provided and I think they’re just being tight with the purse strings but even paying £550 a month is cheaper than keeping the children in foster care so they will want to move them to you.

Fireextinguished · 11/10/2019 20:47

The other factor is SGOs rarely get the ongoing support they need and access to specialist services these children are likely to need.

You have all been through an awful experience and the council are not acting in the best interests of those children.

MaryLane93 · 11/10/2019 21:56

Firstly, I am so sorry OP. You should be being treated fairly by the system, and it is disgraceful that in these tragic circumstances you are having to fight for any help BUT is there anyway you could borrow the money for a short while? Then you could already have the kids in your care and then fight the LA?

RLOU30 · 11/10/2019 22:13

sorry if it's been mentioned but what about a funding page? Can anyone help get this up and running ? We could spread the word and I would 100% donate to this
So sorry for your loss Flowers

cornish009 · 12/10/2019 15:32

I am so sorry for your tragic loss, and admire you for your love and commitment towards your grandchildren.

I have been a foster carer for many years, and was not at all surprised by your unfair story. Over the last couple of years in particular I have spent much time banging my head against a wall at the unreasonable and unkind decisions by children's services. Refusing to pay for something so important at little cost, so instead having to pay out far, far more. There is little logic and even less common sense. The logic of paying for your three grandchildren to remain in foster care, instead of such a small sort term payment to yourselves, is ridiculous.

However, what I am frequently told is that money is allocated in different "pots" and each one is different, some with plenty of money to spend on ridiculous luxuries for the child, but other "pots" like education or transport, having far less to spend on them. It also, to a large degree, depends on how hard you shout and how much of a nuisance you are to TPTB. Of course with the decisions regarding your grandchildren yet to be made you are in a vulnerable position, however I think I may consider a letter to the head of children's services in your area, or above.

Other people have suggested you foster your grandchildren. Whether or not children's services would allow that I do not know. However, although you would receive a fostering allowance (believe me much less than people imagine) they may well expect one of you to leave work to be at home with the children. Also the number of meetings you have to attend can be ridiculous, this week for instance we had three days tied up, and next week we have two days. They may also expect you to attend training courses, and of course you would be visited regularly and have to complete much paperwork. And of course any therapy sessions your grandchildren may need.

It's so sad. Your grandchildren need your love and support, and deserve a family life with those that love them the most (you and your husband) as close to normal a family life as possible. I am not sure foster care would always do that, so I would still try and go for an SGO if possible.

I am so sorry and hope someone else has better advice. I wish you luck.

DirtyWindow · 12/10/2019 16:04

I'm very sorry for your loss.

Are you in touch with the National Homicide Service? If not, the police officers who dealt with your daughter's murder should be able to refer you. They can be very helpful with all sorts of advice and assistance Flowers

www.victimsupport.org.uk/more-us/why-choose-us/specialist-services/homicide-service

Keelix · 13/10/2019 09:27

Thank you to everyone who has commented. There has certainly been some useful advice given.

The local authority have been terrible. Not just in their refusal to help, but in their failings around the whole process. I won't go into that detail here, but suffice to say that we think that we probably have grounds to seek legal recourse against them.

To be honest though, I'd rather not have to do that. I'd rather that we could just take care of our grandchildren and try to move on with our lives.

Thank you to everyone again for your advice and thoughts.

OP posts:
beargrass · 13/10/2019 09:33

I'm very sorry for your loss, OP. I wonder if you could also go and see your local MP at their surgery, and ask them to help you?

Or write to the Cabinet Member, or the opposition member for Children's Services at your LA?

Teacakeandalatte · 13/10/2019 09:35

Good luck OP keep fighting. Get your dgc home.

Verily1 · 13/10/2019 09:41

The department that administrates SGOs is unlikely to have any budget for that type of expense.

I’d advise to do a benefits check on entitled to- you should get quite a lot with 3 dcs and childcare costs.

If that doesn’t work set up childcare vouchers at both of your places of work- that will reduce the bill.

Can you negotiate the fees with the nursery given the circumstances?

Can you find a cheaper provider?

Otherwise take out a loan to pay. Hopefully you can pay this off later from criminal injuries compensation.

TrickorWheat · 13/10/2019 09:41

I am not sure if @Babyroobs can give advice about finances. She is incredibly helpful.

Hopefully you could claim child benefit & child tax credit including the childcare element?

Keelix · 13/10/2019 09:47

One other thing!

A couple of you nice people have sent me PMs. I'm not ignoring you - I've tried to respond, but it won't seem to let me! Perhaps because I'm a new member??

Thank you to those people too.

OP posts:
ticking · 13/10/2019 10:12

I'm wondering if you slightly have the wrong end of the stick....

Firstly childcare is most expensive using a nursery, cheaper options include child minders, family members/reciprocal arrangements with other parents care.

One of my employees is dropping to 4 days a week, and not losing much money. Her partner works weekdays and she works a Saturday so she is home 2 weekdays to care for the child. She then uses a childminder 3 days a week.

Another employee has a sister and they care for each others kids on rotation along with other extended family members...so 3 days reciprocal care and 2 in nursery and so on.

Child benefit exists, and is a useful amount - also if on certain benefits, you get extra childcare support.

In real life people make compromises, very few will just pay out for nursery.

I think you have (accidentally) asked the wrong question of the wrong people. Als o you make is sound like you want paying to take the kids whereas actually the kids should be your primary concern.

Have you thought about one of you taking unpaid parental leave for a short (or long) period of time? Seeing what benefits would be available, dropping to part time?

It's also with noting that very few people with this number and age of kids work full time as its just impossible with the logistics.

DateLoaf · 13/10/2019 10:14

I am so sorry for your loss Keelix and Benes for yours too. Flowers
This isn’t a loss that anyone should have to go through. how insulting to be treated in this way afterwards while trying to make workable arrangements for the children.

Please do contact your local MP and also your daughter’s MP (if they are different people) - you can just email them with what you have already put down here, you’d need to include your own home address and your daughters for her MP. just add in writing that you are their constituent (or your daughter was) at the top of your note) . MPs can be extremely effective advocates.

(Secondarily you will be raising awareness with the MPs of what has happened to you and hopefully a side effect may be that they may be able to start calls for permanent changes which may be able to improve the system to better help other children and families caring for them.)

You didn’t mention wanting info around this so I hope it’s OK to add because I can only imagine how horrifically stressful all this is- self care In terms of talking support for you and for the children if you aren’t already receiving it, is available here free: assisttraumacare.org.uk/how-assist-can-help-you/homicide-bereavement-therapeutic-service/
National support options here; library.college.police.uk/docs/Support-at-a-time-of-loss.pdf

I don’t think you said broadly where in the UK you are (just in terms of England/Wales/Scotland/Ni north/south?) but if you wanted to add that, posters might be able to point you to further local options for more local support organisations.

Northernsoullover · 13/10/2019 10:17

Where does it sound like she wants paying to take care of the children? To me it sounds like they need to work and don't understand the minefield that is UC and associated benefits such as childcare vouchers

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