Fostering Solutions - has anyone used them?

[Zoeee88]

Hi, I am looking into fostering, I've never done it before. I have my initial home visit/assessment from the LA on Monday, but after looking on some threads on this board I'm now concerned that it's not going to be financially do-able on an LA allowance so I'm looking into independent agencies. Has anyone used Fostering Solutions in Cheshire?

Hi, I'm not in Cheshire but there used to be a Fostering Solutions office near me. It was sold last year as I believe they were in financial difficulties. This might have improved now and may be different across the country - I know my own LA have not used agencies for a couple of years now preferring to leave vulnerable children at home and at risk of harm with money being so tight

I'm with fostering solutions and as far as I am aware they are not in any difficulties. They have or are in the process of opening new offices in St. Helens. Their main office is in Bolton , I suppose they only have the smaller ones in areas where there is a need and to promote the business. When I go on training most carers seem to have long term placements. Often two children.
I have found working with them fine, plenty of training opportunities and also offer qualifications in working with childrem, Have never had any real problems though so can't comment on that.
They are always asking carers if they can reccomend friends and family and also hold lots of recruitment days . So give them a call

Thanks, thats really helpful. I'll give them a ring :)

Well yes they always want more carers because it's a business and they recruit you and then sell you to LAs to make huge profits for themselves. It shouldn't be legal but of course it is because this govt loves privatisation in any form.

The thing is as Scarlet says most LAs cannot afford to buy these families for Independent Fostering Agencies (IFAs) because their budgets have been pared back to the bone and there will be worse to come if the tories are elected in May.

SO the answer to your query is "it all depends" - you might go a long time without a placement, and I know LAs are always keen to move children back to their own foster carers as soon as there is a suitable vacancy, because of the cost. Not sure what age range you are considering, most IFAs like to approve you for all age ranges to keep their options open so they can sell you to the LA for any aged child.

I know the LA fostering rates aren't as good as IFAs and I don't blame people for needing enough finance, but it depends whether you want to foster for less money or line the pockets of these IFA directors. Oh and if they say they are a "not for profit" organisation, all that means is that they don't pay shareholders, but it doesn't stop them paying themselves huge salaries. Have a look at the cars they drive!

Ask some awkward questions - lots of carers for IFAs have no idea that everything is costed to the LA, they think that IFAs pay the carers out of their own funds...........Noooo.........ask how it works. I've done this in the past (just to see how honest they were) not Fostering Solutions but other IFAs and was told the biggest load of bullshit ever.

Nananina - with due respect and deference, as I know you are a retired LA manager, I have seen for myself first hand how very devoted and caring, and professional, relatives and friends of ours have been badly treated as LA carers. Had they known back then how they would be treated they would have fostered for an IFA and given the LA a wide berth. Our LA is not fit for purpose as it bullies and closes ranks when a fostering family quite rightly (imho) asks for much needed services for a fostered child. It is a case of dump the child and run, leaving the foster carers to unravel some distressing behaviours and issues that the LA will simply not address or help with. I have known several families (at least 3 in 2014) throw in the towel and retire/resign due to the treatment they have received from our LA. Valuable foster carers have been lost and left to lick their wounds and this does not make others who may have considered fostering rush to register. No wonder the LA is in crisis. It put me off as I know I am not robust enough and would be deeply hurt by some of the treatment I have seen dished out to foster carers by our LA.
There are other factors in making a choice of whom to foster for, such as how you are treated. IFA's treat their carers with much more respect (maybe, as you say, because they need to "sell" them to the LA) but respect, support, being listened to and not treated as if you are stupid is what is needed when doing a very difficult job of caring for some of the country's most damaged children.

Having seen what I have seen Nananina, I would not touch LA foster caring with a very long barge pole. It is broken and the social workers are not open to dialogue, they run a tough regime that is dying on its feet. I trust things were better in your time. I wish more LA's had Nananinas. xx

It's an error of judgement to assume all agencies are badly managed and purely financially motivated. There's no doubt there are some bad and some good (bit like LA's really!) As plugin says the system is broken and as a current LA carer myself I see first hand just how badly broken it is. I understand people's objection in principle to agencies but there are some which are very good. Like it or not they fulfil a need created by years of successive governments mismanagement of the care system. Don't blame the agencies and don't assume that their carers aren't well enough educated or informed to understand where their fee comes from. I have close friends who foster for LA's and some for agencies, they are all smart people.
We should embrace and support all foster carers whoever they 'work' for, we are an undervalued and rare breed.

Pluginbaby you don't need to be respectful or deferential to me! I agree with everything you say and I am saddened that the system is as you rightly say broken and the way in which foster carers are treated. There were often bumps along the road in my day (and I worked for a Shire county) but they could be smoothed out with some sensible discussion.

However the situation you describe is not just relevant to Children's Services. In my view all public services nationwide are "on their knees" - teachers, doctors, nurses, police, fireman, social workers etc and I lay the blame fairly and squarely at the feet of this ghastly coalition govt who have slashed the budgets of all public services (to pay for the greed of the bankers) and Osborne is talking of further massive cuts if they win the election. If this happens the state will be shrunk to the size it was in 1930!! Imagine that..............you must have heard of the crisis in the NHS, thousands of front line police losing their jobs, unqualified teachers in schools, and so many public servants stressed to the max because of the overwhelming workloads.

I am still in touch with some of my ex colleagues and so I hear of the things you are describing - it isn't because social workers have stopped caring. Senior managers are ruthless because of such serious under funding and so put enormous pressure on those below to cut corners, as more and more savings are demanded. In the LA I worked for (and in many others) they have had to sell off the buildings and so social workers are sitting in car parks with lap tops. I heard of a manager who told a fostering sw she was only allowed to visit a foster family once per month! And this is in a Shire county so god help the inner cities.

It frustrates me when I see people demonstrating outside town halls about the loss of services to older people, those with learning disabilities, people with physical disabilities and disabled and sick children etc etc. They are demonstrating in the wrong place - they should be banging on the door of No 10 where Cameron and his rich friends are busy looking after the wealthy of the country whilst demolishing the welfare state.

Sorry for the rant but it makes me so angry............and I rant about IFAs because I hate privatisation and this govt will not rest until all public services have been privatised. Did you know they have already sold off huge chunks of the NHS to American conglomerates who in turn will make vast profits for shareholders, and guess who those shareholders are - yes Osborne and his rich friends..............it is beyond shocking.

And we haven't seen anything yet - this is just the start. Sorry I must stop or I will rant for ever. The truth is Cameron et all care nothing for public servants, including foster carers - they care about profit and more profit and looking after their own interests.

I agree with you cazzmags and sorry I wasn't meaning to say that fosters carers were not intelligent resourceful people who had the good sense to work out how IFAs work although I accept that was how it came across. I'm afraid I allowed my frustration/anger over what is happening to public services to spill out in relation to IFAs.

I spent some 30 years championing the rights of foster carers and I don feel utterly sickened to hear how they are now being treated by LAs but I think I have explained where the blame lies as far as I'm concerned.

My son and DIL are both primary school teachers and they are hugely stressed and say NQTs are "on their knees" trying to learn to teach in inner city schools and many are leaving because of the stress and massive workload. They routinely work one day of the weekend each and most evening, planning, marking etc etc. And Gove calls them "the Blob" and puts unqualified teachers into academies and free schools.

Sorry I must stop or I will rant on..................

I can't understand why ifa would go to all the expense of doing form f, paying for panel, training etc just so can have lots of carers sitting round doing nothing waiting to be sold to a LA, they must be needed?
Also the fact that I am being sold does not bother me in the least. I know that I am giving the child in my care everything that they need and want and that is the priority to me. I don't care that someone is making money by using me to provide this, unfortunately that is the way the world is.
We have had a child removed from our care, 2nd move in less than a week to be placed with an experienced in house carer to save money. We were called two weeks later to see if they could return to us as the new carer couldn't cope with behaviour . Of course we said yes. At LAC review IRO wiped the floor with SW.
Also LA social workers have so much to do, from removal of child , court meetings, dealing with families, sorting out contact the fact that the care of the child is being dealt with by another department takes a bit of the pressure off surely.
If you add up how much it costs for child's SW, the office, travelling expenses , etc I'm sure there's not much difference in the amount being paid to IFA.
The reason I went with an IFA is purely because If you phone our local council you can't even get through to someone to find out when your bins are being collected , imagine trying to get a SW at 2 in the morning in the middle of a meltdown with an unruly teenager!

IFAs need carers ready for any placement from the LA because they don't want to be in a position where they can sell a family and make a big profit. I understand that you are ok about the nature of IFAs and I can understand this. It's all very well the IRO "wiping the floor" with the sw in your case but she/he would have been told by senior managers to bring the child back in house because of the cost - end of.

LA social workers have different roles and fostering social workers (or link workers) don't carry out the duties of social workers doing the child protection side of things. Different LAs organise themselves in different ways, sometimes there is a central Recruitment Team who recruit and train carers, and then carers are supported by link workers in their geographical area. Well this is how it should work but because LAs are under such pressure now because of budget cuts, unfortunately foster carers aren't getting the support that they need.

Yes you get good support from IFA support workers but their time is charged to the LA, it's all part of the package that the LAs have to buy. So the IFA can ensure that they include in the costings a substantial amount of support for carers (and this of course is not a bad thing) it's just the inequality of the systems that frustrates me, but privatisation is the way of the world as you say, sadly.

I can assure you that IFAs charge LAs very high rates for their services. They are businesses are like all businesses are in it to make profit. It's also very unfair to the kids as the ones in IFA placements are going to get far more support, and this should be available to all children. I retired in 2004 and LAs were struggling to pay IFA rates then and were only using them as a very last resort, so I dread to think how bad it is now.

I happen to know that some LAs are openly admitting that they are having to leave children in unsafe homes because they can't afford to care for them. That is shocking but the govt don't care - all they care about is profit.

You are quite right Nana Nina, Most IFA's are off shore Private equity company's will buy any struggling IFA's. Know of on such Org who were also offering Private consultations and assessment's for LA's for disabled children, some councils paying in excess of £20.000 per child it went bankrupt liquidated leaving councils family's and children high and dry
Be no one's fool, once private orgs are in the majority , rates and
wages will fall also standards. Same as we see in the Adult Care System and Disability Care. Not forgetting expensive child care and low payed staff

I just wanted to say I am with a LA (and am having a lot of problems) and have had a long period of vacancy already (and know other LA carers in the same situation) whilst knowing that the LA uses many IFAs.
When I asked my SSW if they checked whether there would be children that could be moved back in house as so many in-house carers have vacancies, I was told they don't. Whilst I understand the reasons why (stability for the child), it also makes me think that the old concept of in-house carers always being used to full capacity and IFA carers having to wait for months for a new placement is probably not true anymore.
Sorry Zoe if this does not answer your question.. :)

I think it's always been the case that foster carers (both LA and IFAs) can go for long periods without a placement, and this can be very frustrating. I'm not sure of the reason - it's never really been possible to predict when a family crisis will arise that means a child will need to be fostered. Also as LAs budgets are hit more and more they are sometimes having to leave children in unsafe homes as they don't have the funding to care for them. Hopefully this is only in extreme cases - Birmingham City Council is openly stating that they cannot keep children safe because of the state of Children's Services and serious lack of resources.

I honestly cannot imagine any LA using an IFA carer if there is an "in house" carer available - it doesn't make any sense. It does also depend on the age range of your approval - there are usually enough carers for under 5s whereas there is usually more of a need for sibling groups, older children and those with a disability.

My LA is seriously struggling, we will be the next ones you see on the news I'm sure.

For the first time I can ever recall our supporting social workers are encouraging foster carers to note and complain about everything, hoping that this will force the council to take some note. It's no secret here anymore that children are being left in danger at home - a couple of years ago it was known but not acknowledged but now it's openly discussed at our support groups.

LA foster carers used to get "easier" placements but this is no longer the case. There are no "easy" placements anymore as children are left at home so long that they're much, much more damaged once they are finally removed. They are then also too old, or too difficult, to move onto adoption - and hey presto the adoption "waiting" list is reduced. Win win for the government. Shame they achieve their success at the children's expense.

Sorry to go off topic slightly, this is nothing to do with Fostering Solutions.

Back on topic, I've had a look at some of their directors and it's very interesting how often they change - and how many of them are directors for one agency,then another and another, the same names cropping up each time moving around the "big" agencies.

I'm not saying this is illegal or anything. Just makes my stomach turn a little.

Interesting Scarlet - how do you find out the info about the Directors? I thought all companies had to put their accounts in the public domain but don't know how to access it.

I think it's a good thing that supporting social workers are encouraging foster carers to complain, forcing the council to take some note. At least that shows the social workers are as upset as the carers at what's happening. At the risk of repeating myself though, the LAs are between a "rock and a hard place" aren't they because they are being forced to make massive cuts to their budgets and more in the pipeline if this govt get re-elected in May. It's Cameron et al that need to know what is happening, but they don't care - they are cutting all public service budgets and demanding better services! How crazy is that.

NanaNina I started at Companies House, where the names of all company Directors have to be registered. There are then various other sites where you can see the working histories of any particular Director.

My council have recently been gaugeing public opinion on how best to make the multi million pound savings needed in the next financial year. The current online survey asks us to choose between cuts in Children's social care and cuts in Care for the Elderly!! How on earth are the leaders of this country still holding their heads up in international meetings??

It’s a shame there is negative views about the IFA sector. I am a Registered Manager of a fostering agency, so please let me clear up some points.

We do not sell carers to the Local Authorities!

At great cost to us, we assess carers and they remain working for the agency. We estimate that a Form F assessment cost about £12,000 per assessment which includes advertising, assessment, admin, panel, QA time ect.

Profit

It is a profitable industry I agree, but we run as a business. If Local Authorities had this mentality, then perhaps England would not be in the economic state we are in. The cost to run the agency is huge! Half the fees paid by the LA go direct to carers. The other half pays for the running of the business and then comes the profit. A lot of this is then put back to support the children. Before criticism is placed about director fees, have a look at the wages of directors of LA’s. I can assure you, our directors do not take huge fees.

It’s worth looking at the Care Cost Calculator before making comments about fees. It’s well known that to have a child looked after in house cost more than and IFA. This is not publicized or known by people who criticise the system. What the LA forget to tell you when they talk about fees are the on costs. They will say that the cost of a foster placement is what they pay the foster carer. This does not take into account the cost to run the service from SSW’s, admin, manager wages, pensions (of everyone) building costs ect.. this is a huge cost where you have to factor everything in, even the directors wages and pensions!

Placements.

We receive about 400 – 600 referrals a month. Do not believe anyone who says the LA’s are not placing in the private sector. They are referring and we are placing. In fact, our biggest problem is lack of vacancies! Carers who wait a long time for a child with us are those carers who continue to say no to referrals. Matching is key and we take this very seriously. Having a vacancy is OK and we listen to carers views very carefully. However, when they then complain they do not have a child, we sit back around the table and re-look at what they want and the type of referrals being received.

Bringing children back in house.

We have seen a number of LA’s attempt this. However, this is not legal! The Children Act 1989 is clear about the Welfare principle, listening to the wishes of children and also “most suitable” placements. With this in mind, we have challenged the LA’s, had an advocate and legal representation for the child and they have remained with their carer. You should also be aware four LA’s currently have a legal challenge in place by NAFP which it is hoped will set a precedent for removing children to in house carers. If the LA is threatening to move in house, then speak to your IFA manager about this. Most IFA’s have commissioning contracts and this needs to be addressed at this level.

Support

Just to be clear, the support you get from the IFA is not separately charged to the LA. The fee we get from the LA is inclusive whether we see a carer daily, weekly or monthly. We offer qualified SW’s to support our carers with a limited case load to ensure quality. I make no apologies for this. This is what fostering should be about so that carers can get on with the difficult job of looking after children.

Costs

The average cost of a placement is £800 - £900 per week per child. Half goes to the carer the other half to the agency to deliver quality support to carers. Much of this money goes back to the child. We provide sessional workers, activities, DofE for young people, holidays, extra for festivities and birthdays. The cost of running the agency is astronomical, much of which is about ticking the boxes for Ofsted! Before comments are made about how IFA’s operate, please ensure you have the facts rather than spout opinion based on experience of being an LA manager 10 years ago. The industry has changed hugely since then.

Private Equity

Most IFA’s are not private equity. Some of the big players are but the majority are small agency’s that are privately funded often by ex social workers or foster carers. Again, please have the facts!

Hope that clears a few points up. I have delivered facts as I see them but believe I am in a position to do so as I work in the sector, manage a successful agency and been a social worker for over 25 years. Any more questions, views or opinions, I am always happy to give an honest answer. Just ask!

Thank you for taking the time to inform us all. It's pretty much all I thought was going on behind the scenes to be honest. I see my role as being a carer and ensuring any child in my care receives all that they need and want and as a carer for an IFA I feel I am emotionally and financially able to do this. I really don't want to concern myself with the ins and outs of how LAs spend their money. The only way we can change things are on voting day!

Interesting post Jacob - I would make the following comments:

The issue of whether IFAs sell carers to the LA is one of semantics really isn't it.........of course they don't sell them in the sense that they then work for the LA, but you sell their services - as in the purchaser/provider split.

You admit that IFAs are businesses. I find your comment "if LAs had the same mentality then perhaps England would not be in the economic state we are in" as arrogant as it is misinformed. Public services are not businesses and it isn't a case of LAs changing their mentality it's a question of the enormous difference between public service and private enterprise. Surely you must be aware of those differences. Public services are not about profit - they are about provision of a service to someone free at the point of need. Well that's how things used to be, but because of his govt's intention to privatise all public services, they will be businesses with the same motive as all businesses.........profit and providing wealth for shareholders.

It's already happening - schools are becoming academies and managed by conglomerates (sometimes managing 30+ schools) and are intent on making a profit out of children's education. Large sections of the NHS are being sold off to multi national companies - again profit is the driver. 70% of the Probation Service is privatised, as are some prisons, and other offender services. The big names "Capita" "G4S" "Centro" are being given 10 year contracts by the govt to run all manner of services, and continue to be successful in winning contracts even when they are supposedly under investigation for fraud i.e. the G4S scandal about charging for tagging offenders who were still in custody or no longer had a tag, to say nothing of the scandal about the Olympics.

You talk of the fact that it is not legal to move children back "in-house" and quote the CA 1989. It also states in that Act that children should be placed in their home environment wherever possible and I'm sure if you listen to the "wishes and feelings" of children they would prefer to remain in their home area, close to their family and attend their usual school than being placed miles (sometimes the other end of the country) away with an IFA carer.

I find your claim that in house placements cost more than IFA placements (even with the "on costs") quite ridiculous to be honest. If this was the case why would LAs only be using IFAs as a last result and why would they be trying to move the child back "in-house". The figures you quote £800 - £900 per week are the figures that IFAs were charging 10 years ago when I was a LA Manager. I simply cannot believe that this is still the case.

Maybe you can tell us the name of your IFA so that we can look at the accounts for ourselves. This would be a way of evidencing your claims.

I can't add much to Nananina's post except to query the 400-600 referrals received and placed per month. Surely this would mean every LA in England referring 1-2 children to your agency alone, every month. At a time when lots of LA carers have empty beds, why would they do this? I don't believe it's because it's cheaper because my SSW still has to visit whether I have a child here or not.

Jacob can I ask which agency you're with because I'm an approved foster carer and have said yes to almost every referral but still haven't had any child placed with me. If I wasn't suitable then the agency wouldn't call with these referrals. 95% of the time I say yes but then only to be told that the LA placed the child(ren) elsewhere or that the child was placed with someone more suitable. After waiting for almost year for a placement, I think its fair to say that I shouldn't hold out much hope for something to happen anytime soon. I'm with Fostering Solutions but if I had to start again then Fostering Solution is NOT an agency I would choose to work with.

Glad you agree Private EQUITY are big player big enough too buy out smaller IFA's , children's homes, schools, specialist education establishments, also able too access Government funding , list go's on and on. Public purses are fat cats too these privatised company's sadly.

Will be interested in the response Jacob to the comments/queries that have been raised. I missed the point Scarlet has raised - 400 - 600 referrals and placed every month - I think you need to check your facts before telling others to get their facts right!

Tinkerbell Can I ask how long you've been with FS - do you mean you haven't had a placement since you were approved a year ago? Maybe you'd better move to Jacob's IFA! OR you could always apply to foster for the LA. I think it can be frustrating for carers (and this certainly happens with LA carers) because they are phoned and asked if they will take a child/ren, and then it turns out that the children didn't in fact need to be removed or they were placed with relatives. When sws go out on a child protection matter they always ask the fostering team to try to find a vacancy in case it is needed, but very often it turns out it isn't needed and the carers are left high and dry.

In spite of what Jacob says I know that LAs will only use IFAs as a last resort and sometimes they exploit in house carers by asking them to take an additional child, to save using an IFA. This notion that the cost is the same is ridiculous.

Nananina I haven't had a placement since I was approved. When you speak to agencies you're lead to believe that there's a huge demand and desperate need for carers but in reality it's very different. When at panel, the SW laughed and said there might be a child waiting on your doorstep by the time you get home and you heard similar during meetings and training but I've had nothing. Keep getting calls asking if I would be willing to take children for respite whilst their carers have a break or go on holiday but that is something I said I definitely didn't want to do. I wanted to make a difference to a child's life and looking after someone else's placement for a weekend or a week isn't what I had in mind.
I've had dozens of calls from the agency telling me "this one looks like it will happen" and sounding like they will be bring the child that very evening and then you don't hear anything. I've spent a lot of time and money preparing myself and my home for what seems like a waste now. It's been a very stressful and intrusive process and one which I really don't think I want to repeat hence why I'm still with FS. Feel let down, deceived and deflated by this whole experience. Not what I had imagined at all. :(